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Old 01-10-2012, 08:08 PM
 
500 posts, read 837,597 times
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The problem is massive overbreeding. US needs to calculate optimal population (which would be much smaller than what it is now) and establish the law controlling how much people can breed (no more than 2 children per couple, 1 child per person--after population had downsized, and 1 child per couple until it had downsized) and cut on immigration. You can't feed and house the swelling population without destroying the land and yes, destroying the existing way of life and the rural communities. Every one feels entitled to pop out a few kids. This should be a privilege, not a right.
When rats, flies, bats, whatever, breed--there's natural control over the population size, via natural selection. This had stopped in human population and you have a swelling world population monster that grows like some blob from a horror movie. This simply can't continue.
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Old 01-10-2012, 08:56 PM
 
12,823 posts, read 24,290,735 times
Reputation: 11039
Quote:
Originally Posted by xani View Post
The problem is massive overbreeding. US needs to calculate optimal population (which would be much smaller than what it is now) and establish the law controlling how much people can breed (no more than 2 children per couple, 1 child per person--after population had downsized, and 1 child per couple until it had downsized) and cut on immigration. You can't feed and house the swelling population without destroying the land and yes, destroying the existing way of life and the rural communities. Every one feels entitled to pop out a few kids. This should be a privilege, not a right.
When rats, flies, bats, whatever, breed--there's natural control over the population size, via natural selection. This had stopped in human population and you have a swelling world population monster that grows like some blob from a horror movie. This simply can't continue.
You seem to be unaware of the actual demographic trend. World population is leveling off. If you subtract the effect of immigration the US population is declining, just like what's happening in Europe and Japan. With the world population leveling off, immigration is slowing to a crawl. You are reacting the problems of the past. New problems will arise, as the world deals with a globally declining population for the first time in 10,000 years. That decline, of course, will only steepen if there is a great war, a global pandemic, or, a drastic decrease in average temperatures.
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Old 01-10-2012, 09:05 PM
 
Location: Quimper Peninsula
1,981 posts, read 3,136,846 times
Reputation: 1771
Only wealthy, educated societies are in a negative growth so far.... (Of course the exception is central Africa with Genocide and AIDS causing skewed growth..)

It looks like Brazil is about to level off as women enter the workforce..

I believe it will be quite some time before we see global population level off or go negative.

Until then... I too promote the replace yourself only policy.. We had two kids and then got fixed...
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Old 01-10-2012, 09:20 PM
 
1,664 posts, read 3,941,061 times
Reputation: 1878
Quote:
Originally Posted by BayAreaHillbilly View Post
Jefferson or not, when we cash out to retire, if we stay in this state, we'll probably be heading north.
Soo, you will load Granny and Jethro in the truck and head north? Seems like you should head south?
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Old 01-10-2012, 09:31 PM
 
2,652 posts, read 8,557,840 times
Reputation: 1915
Quote:
Originally Posted by esmith143 View Post
For some reason, people who speak the loudest about "destructive encroachments of federal and state governments" and their desires "just to be left alone" are often precisely the people who wouldn't last without government handouts. At the federal level, the reddest states are southern states without much in the way of industry or economy and with heavy reliance on DC money (which, in turn, comes from workers in blue states.)

In California, it works the same way. Counties like Siskiyou are not viable economically and would not survive at their present population levels (low as they are), if not for the money from Sacramento and DC. Next door, in Modoc County, there was a story last year: the county, which was heavily dependent on handouts to begin with, also managed to run up a lot of debt, and it needed an emergency $16 million loan from Sacramento to keep it from declaring bankruptcy. (The total population of Modoc County is 9,700.)

The general idea is that they want the government to give them money and then to leave them alone.

It would be interesting to see how (and how long) Jeffersonians can manage as an independent state. They should do fairly well for themselves for about a year or two, as they quickly cut down all the forests still left untouched because of those cursed "environmental regulations". After that, it will be a blood bath.
You're starting off on the assumption that the government does it better. What if they were left to their own devices and created an economic atmosphere rivaled by many large metropolitan areas. You're assuming they would just "cut down all the forests" just because. What if, thanks to low taxes and regulations coupled with innovation, they figured out how to cut the time it takes to grow a tree in half. Or they figure out a new way to build houses with no wood. Government does most things wrong, and that's where most "Jeffersonians" are coming from.
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Old 01-10-2012, 09:56 PM
 
Location: San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties
6,390 posts, read 9,632,868 times
Reputation: 2622
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke9686 View Post
You're starting off on the assumption that the government does it better. What if they were left to their own devices and created an economic atmosphere rivaled by many large metropolitan areas. You're assuming they would just "cut down all the forests" just because. What if, thanks to low taxes and regulations coupled with innovation, they figured out how to cut the time it takes to grow a tree in half. Or they figure out a new way to build houses with no wood. Government does most things wrong, and that's where most "Jeffersonians" are coming from.
I suggest you read Theodore Roosevelt, Wilderness Warrior The National Forests and game refuges were set aside precisely because of the rape and pillage business practices of the day.

You are not going to cut the time it takes to grow an old growth forest.... period. and second growth and third growth is junk wood, and won't pass building code requirements for construction.

The Jeffersonians are not coming from any logical ideological position. Most of them are coming from the bar down the street.
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Old 01-10-2012, 10:12 PM
 
7,150 posts, read 10,842,546 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by .highnlite View Post
I suggest you read Theodore Roosevelt, Wilderness Warrior The National Forests and game refuges were set aside precisely because of the rape and pillage business practices of the day.

You are not going to cut the time it takes to grow an old growth forest.... period. and second growth and third growth is junk wood, and won't pass building code requirements for construction.

The Jeffersonians are not coming from any logical ideological position. Most of them are coming from the bar down the street.
Is that after or before church services next door to the bar?
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Old 01-10-2012, 10:32 PM
 
Location: San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties
6,390 posts, read 9,632,868 times
Reputation: 2622
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
Is that after or before church services next door to the bar?
Good evangelicals don't drink, except when they do....... Catholics? I well remember my Catholic friends of childhood going to catechism at Father Joe's house.. There was wine for them in the frig... Red wine in the fridge, how barbarian.
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Old 01-11-2012, 02:59 AM
 
Location: anywhere but Seattle
1,082 posts, read 2,544,852 times
Reputation: 999
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
Is that after or before church services next door to the bar?
Fill em up with psychobabble and then booze. What could possibly go wrong?

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Old 01-11-2012, 08:49 AM
 
Location: Quimper Peninsula
1,981 posts, read 3,136,846 times
Reputation: 1771
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke9686 View Post
You're starting off on the assumption that the government does it better. What if they were left to their own devices and created an economic atmosphere rivaled by many large metropolitan areas. You're assuming they would just "cut down all the forests" just because. What if, thanks to low taxes and regulations coupled with innovation, they figured out how to cut the time it takes to grow a tree in half. Or they figure out a new way to build houses with no wood. Government does most things wrong, and that's where most "Jeffersonians" are coming from.
Hello???
Low taxes and regulations in the same sentance is an oxymoron.....
How do you think regulations are enforced??? Via taxes....


So help me out here... Is some one like Ron Paul the "ideal" politician to "Jeffersonians"?

On Regulation:
IMO we tried no regulations... Pre 1970, we are still cleaning up poisoned communities toxic waste dumps and so forth..

We also tried deregulation of the banking system.... Look what got us... The housing bubble, and the 08 crash, recession which we have not recovered from globally to this day!!!

Their was no regulation when 90% of our nations forest were cut down... A 100 years later they still have not recovered.. Clear cut old growth on poor, erosion prone soils and it may take 1000 years to recover if ever.. How's that for local economic growth..

We know how to make quality trees grow fast... It is called forest management and selective logging... The reason the region's economy collapsed is not because of environmentalists stopping logging, but because greedy profit today rape and pillage corporations cut too much using poor methods..

I am disgusted and disappointed in our political system too.. I very much want to see change..It is my opinion that "jeffersonian" anger should be directed at the greedy manipulative corporations that control our politicians.. NOT at the safety mechanisms such as the EPA which are designed to protect the citizenry from these corporations, ..
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