Gay marriage in California (Los Angeles, August: employment, purchase, moving to)
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This is part of California writers an my conversation earlier...
Civil union a legal procedure , and marriage is a "religious ceremony"... Yes or no Pilgrim?
If Civil union of gays is legal, you or any member of a religion that opposes homosexuality... Does not have the right to oppose gay marriage, if gay civil union is acceptable..
Why, If you agree marriage is a religious ceremony, you have no right to dictate morals of one religion to another...
A major or dominant religion of the day has no constitutional right to tell another American they can not get married by a church that feels homosexual marriage is OK....... Period.... You deviate from that and you create State religion, and fall down the same slippery slope that many Islamic fundamentalist countries have...
Sorry for repeating my self but pilgrim is whining for Nullgeo or JaiJai to define marrige when it has already been done in this thread...
Marriage is a religious ceremony, which also gives participants legal rights, found in the legal definition of Civil Union.. Depending on the religion the set of expectations for the marriage may vary, based on the specific religious beliefs..
If you care about people and about their happiness, then you will abhor the homosexual lifestyle. The homosexual lifestyle makes people miserable. It is profoundly dangerous and unhealthy - emotionally, spiritually, and physically. People who engage in homosexual acts harm themselves, they harm each other, and they harm their loved ones. They experience social pathologies at far higher rates than the general population, including promiscuity, pedophilia, sexually transmitted diseases, substance abuse, domestic violence, accidental deaths, and suicide.
You are right that marriage and family have already been horribly weakened. Same-sex marriage would drive another nail in the coffin. It would make it impossible to repair the damage because, as Dr. Esolen explains, the assumption behind same-sex "marriage" is that marriage is whatever one wants it to be, a function of mere desire and not something real in itself. That cultural assumption, once accepted, destroys families and undermines real marriages too.
There is no part of society that would be untouched. For example, we have already seen religious freedom curtailed as Catholic charities in Massachusetts and Illinois have been forced to close their doors because they could not, in good conscience, facilitate adoptions to homosexual couples. Private businesses are already being penalized for refusing their services to homosexual couples, such as the photographer in New Mexico who wouldn't take pictures for a homosexual wedding. Normalizing homosexuality means depriving Christians and others of the right to religious expression.
Then of course there is the extreme damage that being raised by homosexuals inflicts upon children, who are today already experiencing unprecedented levels of sexual confusion. 70% of incarcerated criminals were raised without fathers: do we really want to perpetuate fatherlessness and motherlessness in this country?
Please read the material at the links above.
It's not a "life style". It's their sexuality ... it's the way "god made 'em".
It's their nature. It's natural.
If they're miserable it is because they are judged, condemned, hated, discriminated against, etc., etc..
If there is a higher rate of mental illness it is for the same reasons stated above ... the oppressive and bigoted and intolerant attitudes toward homosexuality that you and others like you exhibit. You sir are the problem.
Homosexuality is not dangerous in and of itself.
Any sexual behavior between gay or straight people is potentially physically dangerous because of std's.
Casual sex can be harmful emotionally and/or psychologically to both straight and gay people alike.
Promiscuous sexual behavior is not caused by ones sexual orientation.
The majority of child abuse / pedophilia is perpetrated by heterosexual men against girls.
The Catholic church has been, for generations, a haven for homosexual priests who violate boys and, to a lesser degree, heterosexual priests who violate girls.
Domestic violence is rampant among heterosexual couples and it is heterosexual men who are the main perpetrators.
Catholic churches are closing their doors over the adoption issue? Seriously?
Your thinking is biased and unclear ... truly.
Children are being damaged by, among other things, dysfunctional families and unhealthy heterosexual people who mindlessly reproduce when they are not healthy themselves and have no business raising children.
If you wanna blame societies ills on homosexuality go ahead.
Keep your blinders on, stay in denial about who the real culprits are and keep on scapegoating homosexuality.
At least you were honest enough in the above post to reveal that you are intolerant and bigoted.
I have no interest in reading articles that inform and influence you and others like you.
I could say that you are not a true Christian. Or i could say that even if you have experienced the love and peace and blessings of the Christ, that despite it, you are a puppet of religious doctrine and of a religion that has been perverted and inverted and who Jesus would have absolutely nothing to do with!
He would have nothing to do with an institution that partakes in discrimination, oppression, repression, violation, subjugation, domination, humiliation, obfuscation.
I am referring to any and all religions that have used the power of Christ to support wrong thinking and wrong action but i find the Catholic church particularly odious because of the vast power and wealth that they have accumulated throughout the centuries.
That said, i have nothing against practicing Catholics (or any people who partake in any form of Christianity) who find refuge and comfort in the church because they are able to nourish themselves with the essence of Christ despite the rottenness of the hierarchy and the institution.
Imo, though i am a spiritual free agent, there is beauty and value and gems to be found in all religions but any doctrine / dogma that uses power to harm is to be questioned and challenged and not blindly and mindlessly followed.
I'm done for a while. As a final note, until you and Nullgeo propose an alternative and credible definition of marriage, I have to assume that you simply don't have one, and that when you insert the word "marriage" into your posts you aren't even trying - you aren't even hoping - to be understood.
and yet another presumption.
here ... i'll use truetimbers definition ... it sounds good to me.
Marriage is a religious ceremony, which also gives participants legal rights, found in the legal definition of Civil Union.. Depending on the religion the set of expectations for the marriage may vary, based on the specific religious beliefs..
This discussion has been quite revealing. The most passionate voices for same-sex "marriage" are themselves unable to define marriage. Furthermore, they have expressed indifference to the very idea of marriage. Indeed they seem not to believe that marriage exists as an objective, transcendent reality in any form.
We may conclude that they don't really care about the "rights" of homosexuals with respect to marriage because they don't believe in marriage at all. Instead the same-sex "marriage" crusade is led by a pack of vandals whose only goal is to weaken the influence of traditional marriage as a social institution.
True, that, friend.
Also, someone mentioned that whenever anyone opposes gays and their agenda, they're labeled as bigots and intolerant people. How true; I mean it's a double standard, because then you get to say what you wish about the Church/churches or us, and everything's peachy.
Never got that.
It's not a "life style". It's their sexuality ... it's the way "god made 'em".
It's their nature. It's natural.
If they're miserable it is because they are judged, condemned, hated, discriminated against, etc., etc..
If there is a higher rate of mental illness it is for the same reasons stated above ... the oppressive and bigoted and intolerant attitudes toward homosexuality that you and others like you exhibit. You sir are the problem.
Homosexuality is not dangerous in and of itself.
Any sexual behavior between gay or straight people is potentially physically dangerous because of std's.
Casual sex can be harmful emotionally and/or psychologically to both straight and gay people alike.
Promiscuous sexual behavior is not caused by ones sexual orientation.
The majority of child abuse / pedophilia is perpetrated by heterosexual men against girls.
The Catholic church has been, for generations, a haven for homosexual priests who violate boys and, to a lesser degree, heterosexual priests who violate girls.
Domestic violence is rampant among heterosexual couples and it is heterosexual men who are the main perpetrators.
Catholic churches are closing their doors over the adoption issue? Seriously?
Your thinking is biased and unclear ... truly.
Children are being damaged by, among other things, dysfunctional families and unhealthy heterosexual people who mindlessly reproduce when they are not healthy themselves and have no business raising children.
If you wanna blame societies ills on homosexuality go ahead.
Keep your blinders on, stay in denial about who the real culprits are and keep on scapegoating homosexuality.
At least you were honest enough in the above post to reveal that you are intolerant and bigoted.
I have no interest in reading articles that inform and influence you and others like you.
I could say that you are not a true Christian. Or i could say that even if you have experienced the love and peace and blessings of the Christ, that despite it, you are a puppet of religious doctrine and of a religion that has been perverted and inverted and who Jesus would have absolutely nothing to do with!
He would have nothing to do with an institution that partakes in discrimination, oppression, repression, violation, subjugation, domination, humiliation, obfuscation.
I am referring to any and all religions that have used the power of Christ to support wrong thinking and wrong action but i find the Catholic church particularly odious because of the vast power and wealth that they have accumulated throughout the centuries.
That said, i have nothing against practicing Catholics (or any people who partake in any form of Christianity) who find refuge and comfort in the church because they are able to nourish themselves with the essence of Christ despite the rottenness of the hierarchy and the institution.
Imo, though i am a spiritual free agent, there is beauty and value and gems to be found in all religions but any doctrine / dogma that uses power to harm is to be questioned and challenged and not blindly and mindlessly followed.
Hot diggity daffodil, jai. You wrote us an essay!
I was, however, disappointed with your gratuitous use of underlines...not to mention the content!
This is part of California writers an my conversation earlier...
Civil union a legal procedure , and marriage is a "religious ceremony"... Yes or no Pilgrim?
If Civil union of gays is legal, you or any member of a religion that opposes homosexuality... Does not have the right to oppose gay marriage, if gay civil union is acceptable..
Why, If you agree marriage is a religious ceremony, you have no right to dictate morals of one religion to another...
A major or dominant religion of the day has no constitutional right to tell another American they can not get married by a church that feels homosexual marriage is OK....... Period.... You deviate from that and you create State religion, and fall down the same slippery slope that many Islamic fundamentalist countries have...
Sorry for repeating my self but pilgrim is whining for Nullgeo or JaiJai to define marrige when it has already been done in this thread...
Marriage is a religious ceremony, which also gives participants legal rights, found in the legal definition of Civil Union.. Depending on the religion the set of expectations for the marriage may vary, based on the specific religious beliefs..
True, I must say that I am probably the most liberal of the people here opposed to gay marriage. I think you know that.
For me, it goes beyond religious reasons. I use logic to think of what's best for society, and, I just believe that this isn't it.
For me, a completely non-religious civil union with a justice-of-the-peace at City Hall will do just fine for the average gay couple; that is, a civil union with the same benefits of a religious marriage.
If that makes sense, then say nothing.
I don't think very many major religions accept homosexuality. Let's try to remember: Anglicans and Presbyterians (whoever ordained gay priests) are NOT major religions, they are sub-categories of Christianity.
Also, I do not take kindly to the discrimination against the Catholic Church. I'm sure you can give them some dignity by not calling them "dying."
In fact, the parishes in my area are always growing. And that's great; everyone should believe in something.
And now, like a weary cavalryman after a great battle, I simply want to sheath my sword and ride home.
Good day to you all, friends.
Hot diggity daffodil, jai. You wrote us an essay!
I was, however, disappointed with your gratuitous use of underlines...not to mention the content!
i have no idea what "diggity daffodil" means.
I wrote a necessarily lengthy post addressing some truly ignorant statements and sentiments in an almost equally wordy post by a bigot and a homophobic.
Maybe I'll engage more later ... maybe not ...
But I will quickly repeat -- as much as I enjoy revealing the sin of the Catholic concept of "original sin" -- none of this religious conversation makes any difference to the topic of homosexual marriage being sanctioned legally or not. Why? Because religion is not legally entitled to influence civil policy and law in this country. Discrimination based on sex, creed, color, nationality, disability, etc. is verbotten. Period. You can rant and rail till your head falls off about religious definition of marriage and it matters not a whit.
Pilgrim, in every post in this thread you reveal yourself to be a total incompetent at debate. You define words and meanings ... you arrive at conclusions based on opinions and false inferences rather than science or logic ... you tell other people what they have to respond to ... I've rarely read worse incompetence with syllogisms. Pretty unbelievable you ever brought that up.
It's as if you work for Milton Bradley creating board games like Parchessi, or Clue, or Monopoly. You create any scenarios and rules you want and demand that others in the discussion follow your rules. You are a deeply disturbed bigot, filled with repression. And you clearly have no life experience outside your church.
...
Also, someone mentioned that whenever anyone opposes gays and their agenda, they're labeled as bigots and intolerant people. ...
It's very simple ... from Webster's: big·ot
noun \ˈbi-gət\ Definition of BIGOT
: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially: one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance
: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially: one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance
Are gays a racial or ethnic group? I don't think so. And I know, especially those groups, but not limited to them. Yeah, yeah...
What about "upstart" for you?
"2. a presumptuous and objectionable person who has risen to a position of some consequence suddenly" and, as I like to imagine, through a radical issue.
But honestly, why the double standard? Why do you, in pre-school terms, get to call us names, but we can't call you names?
You're just right, and that's it, eh? Great argument, bro.
This is probably the one thing that has made me genuinely mad.
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