Why do people hate California? (San Diego, San Francisco: unemployment, live in, gyms)

[.highnlite]

Originally Posted by Shooting Stars

"Not sure what you are missing, there are no mountains to climb in the east. There are mountains you can walk up on constructed trails, but, aside from rock outcroppings there is no climbing."

You make it sound like there is little climbing activity in the Appalachians. [My statements had no quantitive or qualitative data in them, they state neither that there were few areas, some areas, or a large number of areas.]

I am not sure your point, you listed some rock climbing operations, but no mountain climbing. I stated that there was rock climbing. Now, my guess is that you are not a climber or you would know that mountain climbing and rock climbing are two different things. I have rock climbed in the Appalachians and am quite familiar with the rock climbing there.. Now, Katahdin may have some mtn climbing routes on it, but it is, as far as I know, the only Appalachian peak that does.

Originally Posted by Asheville1

I think most complaints come from California natives, such as myself. Because they miss the way it used to be- or what it no longer "is".

Everything on your list is accurate. This stuff worries me, what is new? What is accurate? Why don't people research before posting?

Add traffic. We used to go to Los Angeles, mostly Disneyland or LAX in the 50's and 60' dad driving the station wagon, in heavy traffic, nothing new there.

Rude drivers. We used to go to Los Angeles, mostly Disneyland or LAX in the 50's and 60' dad driving the station wagon, with scary rude drivers, nothing new there.

Uncontrolled immigration, drain on the economy, and poltical impact.
A. Border Patrol interdicts hundreds of thousands of illegals entering each year. Today the outflow back to Mexico is higher than the inflow, hardly "uncontrolled immigration".
B. The illegal's support the 600 billion dollar ag industry, there is no neutral study that shows illegals are a drain on the economy, you want to see a drain on the economy, watch what is happing in the ag industry due to the departure of the illegals.
C. What the heck does political impact mean?

Summer wildfires are routine throughout the state. As they are in all states and nations with wild land, and Texas

Crowded. Back to day before yesterday, I went for a 13 mile, 5 hour horse ride in one of our coastal state parks, I saw two mountain bikers all day. Crowded? Cities are crowded, that is the nature of cities, rural areas aren't, that is the nature of rural areas. 49% of California is by law not lived in, therefore, not crowded.

Taxes. Ah yes, the old canard, California total state and local tax burden is a whopping 5% higher than the lowest of the low tax states.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by nullgeo

Now Chief, here you go again. On the one hand (just yesterday) you were preaching on how obnoxious it is that some California folks on this board constantly denigrate other places rather than accept different preferences for geography and lifestyles. And here you are, as you do nearly daily, adding to the "California sucks" and "is a stupid place to live rhetoric". I know you'll come back with some "no, no, really California is nice if that's what you like and can stomach" platitudes ... but too late ... you are feeding the negativity just as much as you complain about others from California feeding the opposite.

Tsk, tsk, Grasshopper! How thou dost presume. You're wrong about what I will come back with. But it's
comforting to know you have your short skirt and pom-poms at the ready to lead the cheers and defense where none is really needed. California is, was and always will be unique in a number of wonderful ways.

I believe I said something about regional differences. Here they are just that and nothing more. The Aux Arcs, our region, straddle the divide between the past and the present. In contrast, California primarily straddles the now and the future. With very few exceptions, those of us "expats" who are here were drawn to the Ozarks as opposed to "escaping" California. I hope that's not too subtle a difference for you.

PS. The constant, in tandem defensives by you and others actually diminish the idea/dream that is California more than embellish it; ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

Tsk, tsk, Grasshopper! How thou dost presume. You're wrong about what I will come back with. But it's
comforting to know you have your short skirt and pom-poms at the ready to lead the cheers and defense where none is really needed. California is, was and always will be unique in a number of wonderful ways.

I believe I said something about regional differences. Here they are just that and nothing more. The Aux Arcs, our region, straddle the divide between the past and the present. In contrast, California primarily straddles the now and the future. With very few exceptions, those of us "expats" who are here were drawn to the Ozarks as opposed to "escaping" California. I hope that's not too subtle a difference for you.

PS. The constant, in tandem defensives by you and others actually diminish the idea/dream that is California more than embellish it; ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

Actually Chief, you have just come back with yet another layer of supercilious airs. I expressed my disappointment with your repetitive swipes at California -- and did so without any negative personalization whatsoever. You come back with smart-ass attempts at condescension ("grasshopper", "short skirt and pom-poms", etc). Ugly, sir. And unwarranted in this case specifically. The fact is, as we discussed just yesterday following a series of similarly supercilious comments aimed at me where your accusations were unfounded, there are plenty of valid reasons for personal preferences that contribute to peoples' choices of where and how to live their lives. But you are as guilty as many here of "slapping" judgmentally with arrogant airs. And you have just done it again in these last two posts of yours on this thread. Assuming superiority for having left California is easily as silly as assuming superiority for staying there. If you don't like one, why do you act in kind in the other? -- Or, you can accept the "war of geography" for what it is and just roll with the punches, no?

[Shooting Stars]

Originally Posted by nullgeo

Well, "fruits and nuts" may not be ALL there is to California, but they are certainly at the top of the list for the best things about California. Throw in some nice fresh veggies from the valley farms, and some good fish from the oceans or Delta and it's a smorgasborg of the best of the best, far as I'm concerned.

Absolutely some of the best produce in the country, but you know I'm talking about the term "fruits and nuts" being used to refer to Californians themselves.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by nullgeo

Actually Chief, you have just come back with yet another layer of supercilious airs. I expressed my disappointment with your repetitive swipes at California -- and did so without any negative personalization whatsoever. You come back with smart-ass attempts at condescension ("grasshopper", "short skirt and pom-poms", etc). Ugly, sir. And unwarranted in this case specifically. The fact is, as we discussed just yesterday following a series of similarly supercilious comments aimed at me where your accusations were unfounded, there are plenty of valid reasons for personal preferences that contribute to peoples' choices of where and how to live their lives. But you are as guilty as many here of "slapping" judgmentally with arrogant airs. And you have just done it again in these last two posts of yours on this thread. Assuming superiority for having left California is easily as silly as assuming superiority for staying there. If you don't like one, why do you act in kind in the other? -- Or, you can accept the "war of geography" for what it is and just roll with the punches, no?

Or I can laugh to myself about being accused of "airs" by one of several who think they have all the answers for everyone but I'd rather just be thoroughly modernly dismissive and simply say, "Whatever!"

G'day!

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by Shooting Stars

Absolutely some of the best produce in the country, but you know I'm talking about the term "fruits and nuts" being used to refer to Californians themselves.

Yes, I do know ... and I consider the term also complimentary in that usage ... nothing about boring excites me ... fruits and nuts are just plain fun -- as well as nutritious!

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

Or I can laugh to myself about being accused of "airs" by one of several who think they have all the answers for everyone but I'd rather just be thoroughly modernly dismissive and simply say, "Whatever!"

G'day!

Sir, in spite of some differences, you and I often give each other respect and agreement ... deservedly so. I don't consider you brain-dead or one of the nut cases on this board a bit. Neither do I deny my caustic style on select subjects with select individuals. But you do at times assume the role of pontification -- which in itself is fun, even sometimes called for, etc -- but at times you forget to observe your own rules.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by nullgeo

Sir, in spite of some differences, you and I often give each other respect and agreement ... deservedly so. I don't consider you brain-dead or one of the nut cases on this board a bit. Neither do I deny my caustic style on select subjects with select individuals. But you do at times assume the role of pontification -- which in itself is fun, even sometimes called for, etc -- but at times you forget to observe your own rules.

Yes we do! As for the rest, let's just blame it on senior moments or something else equally benign and drop it, shall we Nully?

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

Yes we do! As for the rest, let's just blame it on senior moments or something else equally benign and drop it, shall we Nully?

Good call, Chief

[Shooting Stars]

Originally Posted by .highnlite

I am not sure your point, you listed some rock climbing operations, but no mountain climbing. I stated that there was rock climbing. Now, my guess is that you are not a climber or you would know that mountain climbing and rock climbing are two different things. I have rock climbed in the Appalachians and am quite familiar with the rock climbing there.. Now, Katahdin may have some mtn climbing routes on it, but it is, as far as I know, the only Appalachian peak that does.

Maybe it was your tone when you responded to the poster who said they prefer mountains their kids could climb with more ease. Are you not "climbing" in altitude when you walk up a mountain on a path? I'm pretty sure that's all they meant by the word "climb". They just want to walk up a mountain without special equipment. I think you chose to misunderstand.

Yes, I do know the technical difference in mountain climbing and rock climbing as a sport. The reason mountain climbing as a sport isn't here, is because our mountains have an actual forest on them, so they climb the rock faces instead.

Either area has plenty for rugged outdoor people.