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Old 04-23-2013, 12:42 PM
 
Location: Laguna Niguel, CA
153 posts, read 269,295 times
Reputation: 75

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
SF has a plastic bag ordinance, but I've never been in a store that observes it. Plastic bags are used everywhere. Except Whole Foods, but that's due to nationwide store policy, not local ordnance. Freeway congestion isn't an issue if you use the subway/BART or whatever the equivalent is in LA, or drive outside of commute hours.
Not sure about S.F. In Dana Point, the area where I live, I have to deal with these paper bags with paper handles that can carry 15 pounds max before they rip apart.
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Old 04-23-2013, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Laguna Niguel, CA
153 posts, read 269,295 times
Reputation: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
There are millions who do, exactly, want to live away from "job centers". If you are a person who needs to live where there are lots of jobs offering you the opportunity to function as a cog in someone else's machine, then you bear that lifestyle's costs. Fine if you do. Fine if you prefer to live rural and independent.

There are plenty of people who live rural everywhere and that includes California. On this forum, posters tend to kvetch about COL and such as endemic to "California" ... and not to the specific areas of California that they are trying [desperately] to squeeze into. Big state. Lots of happy rural people. Millions of them.
Well that's cool, I never said living "away from job centers" was a bad thing. If you want to live in the desert, or the farm fields of the valley, go for it. All I was trying to say is that if you live in coastal California, where obviously most people want to live because they don't want to drive 150 miles to see a Dodger's game, or drive 3 hours just to see the ocean, it's going to come with some negatives, namely traffic congestion, and over crowding.

Also I like how you tried to insult me by claiming "I'm a working cog" just because I choose to live near the coast. You know nothing about me. I actually have owned my own courier service, dry cleaning, and various franchise businesses for over 15 years. In 2012, my businesses grossed $17,000,000 and change, and I employ 10 full-time employees. But continue thinking that people who don't want to live in the boonies are "working cogs" being suppressed by the man.
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Old 04-23-2013, 12:49 PM
 
17,389 posts, read 11,917,005 times
Reputation: 16136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
1. The debt, as explained previously and on various threads, is due to Prop 13 and other laws limiting how the budget is used. Those laws, IIRC, were the result of citizen initiatives, not legislators who had no idea what they were doing.

2. Lack of cities to choose from? Business can choose any city. Fresno, for example, which a number of businesses inexplicably have chosen to abandon recently. There's Bakersfield. San Diego. Santa Barbara. Redding. Why not Arcata? Endless possibilities. Notice that tech developed in San Jose, not San Fran. Tesla located in Fremont. so...what are you talking about?

3. High cost of living in the big 2 urban areas isn't due to size. COL has always been fairly high in the Bay Area.

4. See #1.
#1 - the debt is because the state spends more than it takes in. Quite a simple concept, really. If Prop 13 says you get a certain amount in tax revenue, you take care to spend that amount and no more.

To blame it on the fact that there isn't more money being taken from the taxpayers sounds a lot like our federal govt.
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Old 04-23-2013, 12:53 PM
 
Location: County of Slight Imperturbation
536 posts, read 571,167 times
Reputation: 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaArtist View Post
Yes there are plenty of people in Fly over states who live in rural areas. What does this have to do with California?
Just pointing out that more people live in more rural parts of CA than 43 other states or so. Major Metropolitan areas aren't the end all be all of forming an opinion about all of California.
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Old 04-23-2013, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Laguna Niguel, CA
153 posts, read 269,295 times
Reputation: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kafkaesque View Post
Just pointing out that more people live in more rural parts of CA than 43 other states or so. Major Metropolitan areas aren't the end all be all of forming an opinion about all of California.
Did I say major metros where the end all of California?

Like I said, if people want to live in the valley or the high desert, or in the forest of Eureka, good for them.

My only point was, a lot of the negatives people bring up about California are the high housing prices, traffic, crowds, etc, most of which exist around the major metro areas of California. If that's not the case in the valley or desert, then more power to you. You can actually live a sustainable life in CA without any of its negatives.
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Old 04-23-2013, 01:03 PM
 
Location: County of Slight Imperturbation
536 posts, read 571,167 times
Reputation: 209
That seem to inform your opinion of why people hate CA. Your initial surmise:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaArtist View Post
There are valid reasons to dislike California; high housing prices, high taxes for small businesses, ultra green city ordinances (I miss plastic bags), freeway congestion, and just being crowded overall.
1. Housing is not high everywhere. This has been shown in many threads. 2. Oldtrader has posted links showing that taxes in the valley are below average nationwide for small businesses, not higher than everwhere else. 3. Ultra green city ordinances are not everywhere, just in certain municipalities. 4. Freeway congestion isn't endemic in the entire state. 5. CA isn't crowded everywhere, as I have shown on my own link. Since there is more than the Major Metro areas which seem to form the basis of your opinion, I am uncertain what else informs your opinion. As you ignore the vast majority of the area of CA, and 12 million people who live differently than you do in your locality.
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Old 04-23-2013, 01:36 PM
 
Location: Laguna Niguel, CA
153 posts, read 269,295 times
Reputation: 75
1) Yeah, houses are not "high" everywhere, but in the places where houses are cheap, you're living 100 miles away from the city in the desert, or the valley. I'm not sure if you considered this, but some people consider living in the boonies a negative itself. That's why housing is so cheap in Victorville, because in GENERAL, it's not seen as a desirable area to live.

2) Yeah, of course taxes in the boonies are low for small business, because those areas need to attract businesses to the area to create jobs that don't involve picking fields all day, or working as a correctional facility officer.

3) Never said they are everywhere, but places like Los Angeles, and S.F, you know... the largest metro areas in the state, have implemented them.

4) Never said it was congested EVERYWHERE in the state. Of course it's not going to be congested in the desert, because very few people live there.

Also, unless my math is incorrect, the VAST MAJORITY of people live in the major metro areas, not in the desert or valley (even using your 12 million figure).
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Old 04-23-2013, 02:02 PM
 
Location: County of Slight Imperturbation
536 posts, read 571,167 times
Reputation: 209
Of course I considered it. I just provided counter-points to your generalizations of the state to clarify that people who hate the state for such reasons as you stated don't have the entire picture. Actually the 12 million is from Wiki from a source from another poster. I just haven't contested the figure really. Yet, the 12 million is more than the population of 43 other states.

1. I can get you in Bakersfield cheaply, and other areas in the Central Valley, and Sacramento actually relatively cheaply, although the housing market in Sacramento is impacted with low supply right now. Construction is picking up now though. Signs of a recovery. And I'd assume most of Northern CA absent the Bay Area and wine country is relatively cheap as well.
2. Glad to agree with you. Except for the boonies characterization anyway.
3. Glad you agree it's a local issue, not statewide.
4. Your initial statement wasn't predicated upon Major Metropolitan areas. I will take that as agreement that CA freeways aren't congested everywhere though.
5. CA isn't crowded generally. I agree.

Last edited by Kafkaesque; 04-23-2013 at 02:13 PM..
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Old 04-23-2013, 02:03 PM
 
7,150 posts, read 10,853,309 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaArtist View Post
Well that's cool, I never said living "away from job centers" was a bad thing. If you want to live in the desert, or the farm fields of the valley, go for it. All I was trying to say is that if you live in coastal California, where obviously most people want to live because they don't want to drive 150 miles to see a Dodger's game, or drive 3 hours just to see the ocean, it's going to come with some negatives, namely traffic congestion, and over crowding.

Also I like how you tried to insult me by claiming "I'm a working cog" just because I choose to live near the coast. You know nothing about me. I actually have owned my own courier service, dry cleaning, and various franchise businesses for over 15 years. In 2012, my businesses grossed $17,000,000 and change, and I employ 10 full-time employees. But continue thinking that people who don't want to live in the boonies are "working cogs" being suppressed by the man.
Touchy huh? I didn't try to insult you at all. Never suggested you were a working cog personally, but more significantly I didn't suggest there was anything wrong with that. It's a choice, not a "suppression". Some folks prefer the ease of working for others and they are more likely to need to be in an urban environment. Btw, just previous to my post, I rep'd you on another post you made -- though disagreed with you on this thread. But not so much. And if you can infer the characteristics of coastal urban living as somehow superior to rural living, then those of us who don't care about the Dodgers (or any pro sports) can infer value on our little slices of paradise as well.

$17,000,000 gross huh? Wow. Of course 'gross' doesn't mean much. So please come back with more defensive clarification on net. I'm sure we'll all be impressed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaArtist View Post
Did I say major metros where the end all of California?

Like I said, if people want to live in the valley or the high desert, or in the forest of Eureka, good for them.

My only point was, a lot of the negatives people bring up about California are the high housing prices, traffic, crowds, etc, most of which exist around the major metro areas of California. If that's not the case in the valley or desert, then more power to you. You can actually live a sustainable life in CA without any of its negatives.
Exactly. See, you DO know perfectly well now don't you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaArtist View Post
1) Yeah, houses are not "high" everywhere, but in the places where houses are cheap, you're living 100 miles away from the city in the desert, or the valley. I'm not sure if you considered this, but some people consider living in the boonies a negative itself. That's why housing is so cheap in Victorville, because in GENERAL, it's not seen as a desirable area to live.

2) Yeah, of course taxes in the boonies are low for small business, because those areas need to attract businesses to the area to create jobs that don't involve picking fields all day, or working as a correctional facility officer.

3) Never said they are everywhere, but places like Los Angeles, and S.F, you know... the largest metro areas in the state, have implemented them.

4) Never said it was congested EVERYWHERE in the state. Of course it's not going to be congested in the desert, because very few people live there.

Also, unless my math is incorrect, the VAST MAJORITY of people live in the major metro areas, not in the desert or valley (even using your 12 million figure).
Ooooops, back to sneering with the "boonies" comments again. And here I thought you were being magnanimous.
Yes, some people consider living in the boonies a negative. And, in California, that defines their struggle to compete in the metros. Meanwhile, back at the ranch(es) all over rural California, life goes on -- with considerable pleasure and affordability.
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Old 04-23-2013, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Laguna Niguel, CA
153 posts, read 269,295 times
Reputation: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
Touchy huh? I didn't try to insult you at all. Never suggested you were a working cog personally, but more significantly I didn't suggest there was anything wrong with that. It's a choice, not a "suppression". Some folks prefer the ease of working for others and they are more likely to need to be in an urban environment. Btw, just previous to my post, I rep'd you on another post you made -- though disagreed with you on this thread. But not so much. And if you can infer the characteristics of coastal urban living as somehow superior to rural living, then those of us who don't care about the Dodgers (or any pro sports) can infer value on our little slices of paradise as well.

$17,000,000 gross huh? Wow. Of course 'gross' doesn't mean much. So please come back with more defensive clarification on net. I'm sure we'll all be impressed.

Exactly. See, you DO know perfectly well now don't you?

Ooooops, back to sneering with the "boonies" comments again. And here I thought you were being magnanimous.
Yes, some people consider living in the boonies a negative. And, in California, that defines their struggle to compete in the metros. Meanwhile, back at the ranch(es) all over rural California, life goes on -- with considerable pleasure and affordability.
There are negatives to living in the metro areas, and negatives to living in the periphery. Where ever someone chooses to live is a personal choice, and I'm not going to bash someone's choice to live where they want.

My brother has 5 acres in Palmdale, he goes ATV'ing, and loves the amount of space. Of course when I visited him last Summer, I could barely sleep more than 30 minutes before I was covered in sweat and needed to wring my shirt out to get rid of all the water.

But here in South County, my yard is a postage stamp compared to his, and I pay four times the taxes for the privilege.

So it's all about a trade off. You can't get everything unless you're a Bill Gates guy who can buy out entire neighborhoods and create your own dream paradise. I happen to like where I live, and I'm sure you love where you live.

Can't we just agree to disagree without the generalizations?
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