California in ten years (2022) (closing)

[.highnlite]

mod cut

Originally Posted by atvwife

show me one illegal that's filing a state and federal tax return and paying state and federal taxes, not to mention things like excise tax in some states.

the illegals in the fields have the same withholding as the legals, in fact, the grower utilizing them has no idea who is legal and who is illegal.


yes, i'll give you they pay sales tax...ok, 5-10% depending on the state, and it's on what they buy only. Far cry from someone who has to pay 10-25% of their income in federal tax, 5-10% in state tax, 1% in excise tax, and 7.5-16% in social security/medicare/self-employment taxes. Hmmm, far cry from 20-50% of your income.

as i stated, the illegals in the fields have the same withholding as everyone else, therefore, they are paying the same taxes as anyone else doing the same work at the same pay.



bottom line is...no, they sure as heck are not paying the same taxes as me, my neighbor, and most other americans. They also get to send their kids to public school...tax payer supported.

like i said, they pay the same taxes. I am sure you would rather not have their kids in school but out on the street? They are paying for their kids education, just like everyone else.

and behold...here in our fields where farming is the biggest industry in the community, they hire white american teenagers to work the farms all summer. Amazing what happens when you teach youngin's about a hard day's work. Then again, they are long-standing family owned farms, not big american companies, but none of our high welfare-recipient puerto rican population is coming and standing in line for a job. The free money is too easy.

it is obvious from this statement that you do not have knowledge of california produce farming. Tens of thousands of illegals are working in the fields, white american teenagers are, or should be, in school. There are not enough teenagers to fill the need for labor. There are farms that have attempted to ween themselves off illegal field labor. Their costs go up three times, the rate of work goes down 2/3s. No farm can afford white labor, white americans work very slowly, when the bother to show up at all.
The following is well worth your time to read. farmworkers

your statement about big companies misses the facts. In our valley alone there is one large company, and dozens of family farms, but remember, produce farming requires hundreds of workers in the field. Even in a smaller family farm. Not to mention that teenagers are no longer permitted to do most farm jobs, unless they are family.

it's true, there are two sides to every issue, but it's simply not accurate to say illegals pay their...in our liberal president's words..."fair share."

i hope you will read what i posted, understand what i posted, and realize that the illegal farmworker does indeed pay their fair share, inspite of what rightwing pundits who have no idea what they are talking about, spout.

[Gentoo]

Illegals pay exactly the same taxes as everyone else.

Um...no.

I have seen no white Americans lining the roads in the vegetable fields crying about the illegals that took their jobs. I think, in fact, you won't see white Americans anywhere near a weeding or harvesting crew.

Yes very true.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by CarawayDJ

And why is that? Could it just possibly have anything to do with the working conditions, benefits, and wages not being competitive? It's a little bit of the "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" Did the hiring of illegals occur after corporate farms couldn't find Americans, or did Americans stop wanting this type of work after corporate farms realized they could pay illegals far less, and subject them to substandard working conditions?

You see this in other countries too. In Germany there are certain jobs mostly taken by immigrants (often Turks). The same argument is made there. In some cases it is the result of a labor shortage that existed decades ago but perpetuates today due to depressed wages and poor working conditions. I know that where I grew up in the Northeast, those Americans who supposedly will not clean houses, pick crops, landscape, and so on do indeed clean houses, pick crops, and landscape.

It would be nice to see some honest debate on this in the country. Both sides seem hell bent on telling only part of the story. Taxes is a good example. The anti-illegal immigrant crowd cites that they pay no taxes. That is a half truth. They pay sales taxes when they but goods. You are also spewing half truths. They do not pay EXACTLY the same taxes. Most pay no state and federal income taxes. Yes, some do. Most do not. Another example of telling only part of the story is this whole "they just take the jobs we won't do" line. Yes, for reasons I mention on top this may be the case. But let's not gloss over the jobs you see this happening that Americans absolutely will take. Construction is a great example.

+1

[.highnlite]

Um...no.

um yes, for the reasons I stated.

Originally Posted by CarawayDJ
And why is that? Could it just possibly have anything to do with the working conditions, benefits, and wages not being competitive? It's a little bit of the "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" Did the hiring of illegals occur after corporate farms couldn't find Americans, or did Americans stop wanting this type of work after corporate farms realized they could pay illegals far less, and subject them to substandard working conditions?

It would be nice to see some honest debate on this in the country. Both sides seem hell bent on telling only part of the story. Taxes is a good example. The anti-illegal immigrant crowd cites that they pay no taxes. That is a half truth. They pay sales taxes when they but goods. You are also spewing half truths. They do not pay EXACTLY the same taxes. Most pay no state and federal income taxes. Yes, some do. Most do not. Another example of telling only part of the story is this whole "they just take the jobs we won't do" line. Yes, for reasons I mention on top this may be the case. But let's not gloss over the jobs you see this happening that Americans absolutely will take. Construction is a great example.

When I said exactly, I meant that, and I provided supporting detail. Now, keep in mind I am talking about agricultural workers in produce in CA. I have no expertise in other employment fields. Read what I wrote to atvwife. If you need more explanation ask.

Now, as for why illegals are needed. Please, accept, that I am not giving you my beliefs, I am giving you factual data. White Americans never worked in any numbers in California field labor, except for a short time in the depression. From before the turn of the last century, say 1890. Japanese and Filipino workers worked the fields in the coastal valley. In 1942 the Japanese were interned, the Filipinos largely joined the American military.

The Bracero program was introduced, a guest worker program bringing Mexican workers in seasonally. That program ended in 1964, but the need for labor did not. The good patriotic Republican growers of California like my father, encouraged workers to come across the border, by any means, which included illegals. Now, I say Republican, you can turn over rocks all over this state and look for a Democrat produce grower, without much success, I know no Democrat produce farmer. The good patriotic Republican growers built labor camps in the canyons, and supplied housing and food to the illegals in the camps. And there you go.

Our illegal immigrant problem stems largely from the shut down of the Bracero program.

My father stated many times that the Bracero program needed to be reinstated.

Now, I have been accused many times on this board of being "pro illegal" with all the purported "liberal" accoutrement that goes with it.

I am not pro illegal, I am actually anti illegal, and would be content if all the illegals returned home, except their departure would devastate California Agriculture. And i am prejudiced in favor of California Agriculture, as anyone who eats should be.

So, as I am wont to do, lets hear solutions, there has been enough complaining, solve the problem.

As far as white American citizens taking over the jobs, read this

[Fontucky]

"No farm can afford white labor, white Americans work very slowly, when the bother to show up at all."

Oh please. Replace "white" with "American citizen" for credibility. Show me non-white citizens who are lining up to do field work.

[Dave862]

The California legislature has many more years beyond 2022 before utopian idealism completely ruins the state and it all falls apart in my opinion.

[.highnlite]

Originally Posted by Fontucky

"No farm can afford white labor, white Americans work very slowly, when the bother to show up at all."

Oh please. Replace "white" with "American citizen" for credibility. Show me non-white citizens who are lining up to do field work.

About 20% of field workers are non-white American citizens.

[SportyandMisty]

Originally Posted by .highnlite

Allow me to give you some facts, which you will not accept because they do not fit your beliefs.

...As I stated, the illegals in the fields have the same withholding as everyone else, therefore, they are paying the same taxes as anyone else doing the same work at the same pay....

When an illegal alien fills out a W-4, they write "EXEMPT" on line 7, so no taxes are withheld from their pay.

[Huckleberry3911948]

not 10 years this year. a good sumani will trigger it.
if you got weapons for G sake dont turn them in.

[Kimballette]

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