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You "don't know the laws" "but [that] is irrelevant"? Really?
I didn't respond because whatever it is you are trying to say doesn't make any sense the way you have written it. Don't know if it is your English skills or your thinking processes. Smokers are not a category of people given protection under fair housing laws. That's it.
I think different from you. I expect some people to be dishonest, while you probably don't. Yes, smoking is not a category of people given protection, but they don't need to talk about how they are smoking. They can talk about how I didn't pick them, because they had another religion. Or I didn't pick them because of their skin colour.
See, I don't like that kind of risk. If I bump into the wrong guy, then I risk getting persecuted for not picking a bad candidate.
Also, I don't know why you haven't realized it yet. I DON'T LIVE IN AMERICA, and have no plans to do so. I have lived in America, but that was in high school.
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Further: it is easy for a person to file a complaint ... but they don't get to be the investigators ... and it isn't easy to prove discrimination, unless there is clear evidence ... in which case it is what it is. A black landlord can be charged with discriminating against a white client, just as easily as the reverse. But if the investigation shows that his choice of a black tenant over a white applicant was based on good business decisions -- such as credit worthiness and past rental references -- there will be no conviction. Any investigations will adhere to strict legal guidelines that are very well spelled out.
What if I didn't pick the black guy, because I didn't like his attitude. Can I get persecuted for that, if he makes up a case against me?
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No landlord can afford to sit on a property and not rent it out because they fear an anti-discrimination lawsuit when the remedy to the problem is so simple: compliance with the law.
I am not going to sit on it. I will rent it out to my friends that I can trust. That is when you will experience real discrimination, because I only become friends with certain kind of people. For instance, I have very few friends who are very liberal, or people who are uneducated. I also have a bias against Swedish people.
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And finally, here we are again with non-sequiturial international comparisons. Hong Kong and Manhattan have zero relationship to each other or this thread in any way - other than they are both horrible places to live (yes, I have spent time in both). (And don't get me started about Kowloon! Can't believe you would throw that hell-hole of human chaos into this discussion).
How can you say that about Hong Kong? Did you get fooled by those Indian merchants?
I love Hong Kong. Its one of my favourite places in the world. I especially like Kawloon. Not Tsim Sha Tsui, because there are too many massage prostitutes and Indian merchants. But I really like Mong Kok. They only thing that sucks with Hong Kong is that they speak catonese and the wealth gap. I wish they were speaking mandarin like the rest of China. I have lived in both China and Hong Kong.
As I wrote three times previously: there is no actual question being posed by the OP. This thread is a hypothetical construct created specifically to launch yet another campaign to champion his specific religious / moral dogma. He never sought advice ... nor, I suspect, ever intends to rent his property.
The OP demonstrates an in-depth study of the limits of the very laws he purports to ask about. He has seized upon the few exceptions and remaining glitches to federal anti-discrimination law, for instance, relative to state laws (of which there are over 20 states now guaranteeing housing rights based on sexual orientation).
It is patently clear that anyone with this kind of research in hand, clever and devious enough to find and understand these angles, would not come to an anonymous forum attended by the general -- and typically less legally sophisticated -- public to ask for "advice" on a matter of such potential personal liability.
So this is yet another ruse to advance a bigoted agenda.
Furthermore, this OP has very cleverly danced around identifying the exact behaviors he identifies as being morally repugnant. He cites LGBT orientation as unprotected by federal fair housing law, yet doesn't admit that is the objection toward the "potential applicant" he cited at the beginning of the thread. The OP's argument then is one of personal freedom based on his religious brand of morality. This is disingenuous nonsense. With the vast majority of his posts focused on sexual morality, the only way to try and avoid being identified as sexually obsessed (as he has been by numerous readers in the past) is to continue his twisted crusade by dancing around issues without naming specific objections.
I don't understand. You answer WP, but you claim his thread is a ruse. Get out if you don't like it; no one demands your presence, and you're essentially loitering.
C'mon. This is a land of freedom...who cares about his motives for starting the thread? This is ridiculousness. Say, I should question YOU on why you start threads EVERY TIME. Would you imagine that getting annoying?
I'm glad I only ask about pertinent subjects to CD when I start threads, 'cause I sure wouldn't want you to stop by...
Is any more proof necessary of what I wrote previously about the OP's intent on this thread? He's a professional realtor and landlord already ... knows the laws ... why is he posting these "questions" of people less sophisticated in the subjects, laws, and issues? phbbbbt Correct. He's not. Just yet another in his ceaseless series of promoting his anti-American religious doctrine -- especially focused [obliquely in this case] on his obsession with sexual behaviors of others.
The thing is, it's not anti-American (although some people on his list would be) to want to choose in life. He wants a choice of respectable renters--or his friend does, I don't know--and that's fine. Don't even speak about being anti-American...didn't you claim to be a hippie?
Whoops! Hypocrite of the Year Award goes to...
We also aren't all less sophisticated than him. We all have the means to find the information he wants, from experience or otherwise. He wants advice, possibly something he may have overlooked studying the laws, from us, an online community dedicated to giving help. No attitude from people who don't want to answer anyway.
america = equal rights.
nuff said!
and though i can't really or really shouldn't speak for him, i do not think that nullgeo would classify / label himself as a "hippie".
I don't understand. You answer WP, but you claim his thread is a ruse. Get out if you don't like it; no one demands your presence, and you're essentially loitering.
C'mon. This is a land of freedom...who cares about his motives for starting the thread? This is ridiculousness. Say, I should question YOU on why you start threads EVERY TIME. Would you imagine that getting annoying?
I'm glad I only ask about pertinent subjects to CD when I start threads, 'cause I sure wouldn't want you to stop by...
His thread is a ruse. And you seem to be the only one who doesn't get that at this point. I don't care if it's a ruse. I simply enjoy pointing out what a deviously disingenuous fanatic he is. If you had any even slight ability to think analytically you would see that he is a professional realtor who deals with leases professionally (his literal admission) -- and no professional realtor who can dig up court cases dealing with the one or two state law exceptions to federal anti-discrimination fair housing law is going to ask a bunch of professionally "unsophisticated" strangers for advice about an issue that could be very very costly. If you don't get that then you are even far more dense than I had previously thought -- and I never gave you much credit to begin with.
Now all that said, the topic was interesting to a number of people regardless of Pilgrim's intent. And so a number of us exchanged views. I enjoyed the exchange. I am entitled to loiter just as much as Pilgrim is entitled to fake his reasons for starting a thread.
Furthermore, my experience in these matters exceeds that of anyone else in the discussion so far. My contribution has been spot on.
The thing is, it's not anti-American (although some people on his list would be) to want to choose in life. He wants a choice of respectable renters--or his friend does, I don't know--and that's fine. Don't even speak about being anti-American...didn't you claim to be a hippie?
Whoops! Hypocrite of the Year Award goes to...
We also aren't all less sophisticated than him. We all have the means to find the information he wants, from experience or otherwise. He wants advice, possibly something he may have overlooked studying the laws, from us, an online community dedicated to giving help. No attitude from people who don't want to answer anyway.
It is both anti-social and unAmerican to want to choose discrimination against your fellow Citizens. Yes. As I wrote to another poster, this country of ours was founded first and foremost on the principal of freedom from religious persecution. The Pilgrim preaches religious persecution left and right. He is open about it, I'll give him that. Blatantly stating things such as his belief that certain groups of people he personally considers "morally repugnant", based on his religious views, should not be allowed the social freedoms that those conforming to his beliefs would have. Do you agree with that?
That is religious persecution. That is unAmerican as it gets.
As for hippies and hypocritical -- um, no, I've never referred to myself as a hippie -- unless I was joking, but I doubt even then. I'm a clean cut guy and always have been. Life long self employed businessman and tradesman. Combat-disabled war vet. Family man since I was 18, literally. Owned the same family home in a quality neighborhood since 1970. Sound like a hippie to you? I do now live in a van and on a boat in my retirement. Camping and sailing are my lifestyle choices. But no drinking, no drugs, no smoking, nothing but health foods and hiking.
That clarified -- um, what difference would it make if I was a hippie? How is being a hippie hypocritical of anything? Hippies aren't American? What?
And last on tonight's little clarifications for you, by "less sophisticated" I refer to sophistication in real estate and related law. You clearly aren't someone that has the slightest grasp of the subjects or any apparent ability to read and understand issues well. Why would anyone, such as Pilgrim, throw out questions to people like you here on an anonymous forum when he knows a thousand times more than you? Answer? He didn't ask any real question. It was all a ruse to advance his discriminatory arguments.
Hmm
Thanks for that. Don't most typical advertised rentals draw in a batch of applications? Is there some type of first come first served? I would think if I had it advertised for 30 days I could pick who I wanted out of the applications. Do I have to actually "turn down" all of those that applied? Give it to the first "qualified" person who submits an app?
Excellent questions, and still unanswered. I did some "googling" looking for recent case summaries that might answer those questions, and came up with nothing. I don't know how the system works, but maybe they can't put this stuff online? Or maybe there just haven't been any cases (even though housing discrimination lawyers are everywhere)?
I wouldn't be surprised if FEHC bullies manage to "resolve" most cases before they ever see an actual courtroom ....
Whooops. I got distracted. Yes. Good questions. And ones demonstrating how free the system really is -- EXCEPT -- in regard to specifically identifiable minority discrimination -- which you simply can't do. And why would you anyway?
Anyhow: yes, a landlord is completely free to pick whomever as a tenant regardless of whose application comes in first. And no requirement to notify those turned down -- just professional courtesy.
The challenge comes in ONLY if an applicant feels s/he has been discriminated against under the definitions of fair housing laws and files a complaint. THEN investigating authorities will open a file and go to work like detectives. And they're generally pretty good at their job. If a landlord has chosen a less qualified applicant at a later date it raises a flag.
My accounts payable person will send my consultation bill in the mail. $500 an hour with a 1/2 hour minimum. Feel free to ask as many questions as you like
... who cares about his motives for starting the thread? This is ridiculousness. Say, I should question YOU on why you start threads EVERY TIME. Would you imagine that getting annoying?...
Say, since I am back on this thread ... you say I pick on the Pilgrim? You have said this before, as well ... that I, and a "certain group" of others, follow him around harassing him. Just for chuckles, I went and looked up how many threads the Pilgrim has started in just this month of April.
So far: 31 (as of this post).
I have responses in four of those threads.
That's the #4, out of 31.
That's about 13%
And, you'll also note the complete absence in this thread of most of the other "certain group" you have named individually and collectively in the past.
When I find myself in the presence of bigotry, it is my habit -- and my duty as an American -- to stand up to it. It's not necessary that we all "love one another". It is of utmost value, however, that we all learn to respect each other's place as equal. This world is full of hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, floods, disease, blight, starvation and a million other natural catastrophes. Why on earth is it of any value to add prejudice and war to our struggles?
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Correct. He's not. Just yet another in his ceaseless series of promoting his anti-American religious doctrine -- especially focused [obliquely in this case] on his obsession with sexual behaviors of others.
