05-04-2012, 08:40 PM
Location: The Other California
4,254 posts, read
5,581,486 times
Reputation: 1552
With respect to AB 2109 - proposed legislation that would greatly increase the difficulty of obtaining a personal beliefs waiver to opt out of vaccinations - the following was received in my in my in-box this afternoon:
-----------------------------
AB 2109 is an attack upon parental rights and an attack on religious and personal conscience liberties.
It proposes a requirement that, in effect, will burden and restrict the current right of a parent to exempt their child from any or all required vaccinations for school enrollment. The law already allows for non-vaccinated students to be restricted from attending a school while there is an outbreak of particular communicable diseases.
Parental rights attacked:
AB 2109 forces parents into a paid contractual relationship with a health care provider they might not otherwise utilize for their children's health care, which is a violation of basic parental rights.
AB 2109 forces health care practitioners into a gate-keeping role that creates a hurdle for parents desiring to freely exercise their parental rights to direct the health care of their children.
AB 2109 forces parents to attempt to arrange an office visit with a healthcare provider hoping they will obtain the required signature of the doctor. There is no requirement that the specified health care providers either make the appointment, charge an affordable rate, or give the parent their signed statement required by this bill.
Personal Conscience and Religious freedom attacked:
While a visit with and signature from a physician is appropriate for the allowed “medical exemption,” it is not appropriate for the “personal beliefs exemption.” It is not right for the state to put physicians in a role where they can attempt to influence the personal beliefs or the religious beliefs of the parent.
Impractical & Unworkable for many parents and therefore selectively discriminatory by its very nature :
It may be difficult to find a health care provider who will be willing to do this in California, based on their busy and already overwhelming schedules. Some doctors may decline these appointments simply because they don’t want to give people an excuse to not get vaccinations or don’t want to handle “non-treatment” related issues.
AB 2109 ignores the fact that some parents who have a personal belief that any required vaccination is not appropriate for their child may not have a regular doctor for their child and family, and from whom they could readily get the required documentation. Many doctor’s offices are not taking new patients. This has already been the experience of parents in Washington where they passed essentially the same law last year.
Health care practitioners cannot fully educate a parent regarding the risks and benefits of each required vaccination and the health risks of the related diseases in 20 minutes or less. A study in
Pediatrics Magazine showed 80% of parents reported “well” visits lasted less than 20 minutes.
One-third of parents reported
visits of less than 10 minutes .
There is no guarantee that just because you pay money to a provider you will get a signature. In fact, you probably won’t get one. Doctors will not want to sign these for fear of liability.
Creates financial hardship for many families:
AB 2109 would impose a burden on families both financially and time wise. It requires that parents who believe that a particular vaccination or all vaccinations are not in the best interest of their child make and pay for an appointment with an appropriate health care practitioner merely to obtain their signature on a document. This document declares that the practitioner provided the required information. This information is available for free on the web or elsewhere.
AB 2109 will negatively impact many poor or disabled parents by forcing them to make an unnecessary and maybe difficult trip to the doctor’s office. Many have jobs that do not have the flexibility to take time off merely for an information appointment. Insurance will likely not cover such an appointment, and therefore must be paid by the parent.
This requirement is clearly an obstructive roadblock for parents being able to get an exemption for their child.
Physicians—financial conflict of interest:
A parent is forced to pay for information from a health care provider and then hope they can get the required signature. Reports from the state of Washington, which implemented this requirement last year, are that doctors are pressuring parents to join their practice. This is a coercive way of throwing more business toward the classes of health care providers specified in the bill while excluding other sources of the same information.
Physicians—philosophical beliefs conflict of interest:
Health care practitioners should not have anything to do with a parent’s personal beliefs exemption.
AB 2109 gives the physician the power to refuse to give an appointment. Even if he sees the parent, he is not required to sign the statement that is required for the “personal beliefs exemption.”
This bill requires parents who are exercising their rights under the law to pay money to be harassed by someone who disagrees with their views.
Physician-Patient relationship negatively affected:
AB 2109 will likely have a very negative impact on some doctor-patient relationships. This bill requires a health care practitioner to sign a form that acknowledges a child will be exempt from a vaccination. This will be repugnant to some health care practitioners who will not sign the required statement and will result in the development of an unfortunate adversarial relationship between some patients and their doctors. Families may even lose their doctor over this, as has happened under Washington’s similar law implemented last year.
05-04-2012, 08:52 PM
7,150 posts, read
10,837,174 times
Reputation: 3806
The pope is like the Energizer Bunny ...
05-04-2012, 08:57 PM
11,715 posts, read
40,314,839 times
Reputation: 7585
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WesternPilgrim
the following was received in my in my in-box this afternoon:
From
mailinglist@homeschoolwacko.org to our eyes.
05-04-2012, 10:19 PM
Location: anywhere but Seattle
1,082 posts, read
2,543,192 times
Reputation: 999
Anything that annoys WesternPilgrim enough to start yet another thread is a good thing therefore I fully support and endorse AB 2109.
Anybody else in favor of AB 2109?
05-04-2012, 10:24 PM
Location: Sacramento
14,044 posts, read
27,106,052 times
Reputation: 7373
I kind of side with the folks who are concerned that unvaccinated kids can result in rather deadly diseases being spread in the classroom.
However...
About 30 years ago our middle kid had the required DPT shot needed to enroll in school (this was in Virginia, and I'm not sure if it is still required today). Anyhow, he had an awful reaction to the shot, howling at the top of his lungs for many hours and obviously in great discomfort.
In testing, we found out it was the "P" part of the shot that caused him problems. As a result, we declined the follow up shot and replaced it with a "DT" vaccine instead of DPT. We had some initial problems with the school, but eventually were able to obtain a waiver.
05-04-2012, 10:35 PM
Location: Lower east side of Toronto
10,567 posts, read
12,762,532 times
Reputation: 9398
Keep it simple. Your kids are your property. They come from your body and are a product of that body...hence like in the abortion debate- One should have the right to toss their kids over a bridge and into the river rather than submit to being treated like cattle getting their shots at the ranch...If you have the "choice" and are pro-choice and have that state sanctioned right to abort a child- you should have that right to abort a child that is 10 years old also....see what I am getting at? They say that you have the choice to abort because it is YOUR body..and the fetus is product of that body hence your property.
So what business is it that state has in keeping kids alive or dead..If a disease kills your kid it should be your business not the states. This is an extreme way of looking at this subject- but the point is the medical profession is not in authority over you and products of your body- nor is the state.
05-04-2012, 10:46 PM
7,150 posts, read
10,837,174 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Oleg Bach
Keep it simple. Your kids are your property. They come from your body and are a product of that body...hence like in the abortion debate- One should have the right to toss their kids over a bridge and into the river rather than submit to being treated like cattle getting their shots at the ranch...If you have the "choice" and are pro-choice and have that state sanctioned right to abort a child- you should have that right to abort a child that is 10 years old also....see what I am getting at? They say that you have the choice to abort because it is YOUR body..and the fetus is product of that body hence your property.
So what business is it that state has in keeping kids alive or dead..If a disease kills your kid it should be your business not the states. This is an extreme way of looking at this subject- but the point is the medical profession is not in authority over you and products of your body- nor is the state.
Ummm, except that you completely missed the point that an unvaccinated person, child or adult, can be a carrier of disease that threatens other unyet vaccinated, namely the very young. Thus, in that respect, society can be entirely concerned with your offspring as a danger to others, as well as being in danger themselves.
It is a tricky issue. Do not assume I favor mandatory vaccinations. I am very leary of modern medical science. It is marvelous stuff. It is dangerously over-reaching at the same time. And very often quite unproven in spite of trials and testing.
05-05-2012, 01:09 AM
Location: Alameda, CA
578 posts, read
1,289,647 times
Reputation: 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NewToCA
About 30 years ago our middle kid had the required DPT shot needed to enroll in school (this was in Virginia, and I'm not sure if it is still required today). Anyhow, he had an awful reaction to the shot, howling at the top of his lungs for many hours and obviously in great discomfort.
Vaccines have really changed over the past 30 and 50 years ... polio vaccines were an issue at one point with the oral vaccines. We now have vaccines for rotavirus and chicken pox that only were developed in the 90's!
Pertussis is really important to have, especially every 10 years. Our protection wanes for pertussis and there are some major outbreaks going on right now because people are refusing to vaccinate their children and not keeping updated. Washington is having a pertussis epidemic and is asking for help from the CDC.
Parents should have to jump through hoops to refuse vaccines for their kids. Abortion is one thing. Vaccination is another and affects a much, much, much wider range of people.
We need to keep up the herd immunity to protect those who are at risk and can't be vaccinated. Babies die from pertussis and other vaccine-preventable infections. That one child isn't the only one effected by not being vaccinated -- so is everyone that they contact, and that those people contact.
05-05-2012, 01:32 AM
Location: Police State
1,472 posts, read
2,399,703 times
Reputation: 1232
Oh great, more of this nonsense.
I thought that this anti-vaccination stuff was done by now, but by golly some people think they should have the right to leave their kids exposed to fatal diseases and to spread them to other people's children.
05-05-2012, 04:58 AM
1,320 posts, read
2,684,040 times
Reputation: 1323
WesternPilgrim, if you think California is such a terrible place in so many ways, then why do you live there? Just curious.
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People in Group quarters - Institutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - Correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Federal prisons and detention centers (%)
People in Group quarters - Halfway houses (%)
People in Group quarters - Local jails and other confinement facilities (including police lockups) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military disciplinary barracks (%)
People in Group quarters - State prisons (%)
People in Group quarters - Other types of correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Nursing homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards, hospices, and schools for the handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards and hospices for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)