June Vote - Prop 28 and Prop 29 (island, cheaper, tobacco)

[ZhugeLiang]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

Not really, we've had a term limit law in place for a while now and I think we are worse off as a result.

There are only several million other people who could fill the empty seats. Just sayin'.

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

I could care less if you stuck an exhaust pipe in your mouth.

But the facts are as follows, 1 in 5 deaths in the US is caused by tobacco and it costs $96 Billion to treat tobacco related diseases every year. Saddest of all, 49,000 people die each year from diseases caused by 2nd hand smoke.

CDC - Fact Sheet - Fast Facts - Smoking & Tobacco Use

Tobacco is a very expensive habit, in more ways than just a small tax.

As one who has, literally, picked up pieces of crew mates from battlefields, and who has nursed and held a half dozen loved ones as they died of lung cancer, and who has been intimately involved in a number of other gruesome deaths of various kinds, I assure you that lung cancer is the very worst of the worst. Anything that can deter the criminal perpetuation of this habit is a gift to others not yet afflicted.

[NewToCA]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

I could care less if you stuck an exhaust pipe in your mouth.

But the facts are as follows, 1 in 5 deaths in the US is caused by tobacco and it costs $96 Billion to treat tobacco related diseases every year. Saddest of all, 49,000 people die each year from diseases caused by 2nd hand smoke.

CDC - Fact Sheet - Fast Facts - Smoking & Tobacco Use

Tobacco is a very expensive habit, in more ways than just a small tax.

I appreciate folks who are very focused on facts, and I have seen enough evidence to have substantial doubt about the second hand smoke claims.

I have little doubt that those in closed environments around extensive amounts of smoke likely have some negative health impacts. However, I also believe that the claims of damage and death from intermittent second hand smoke has been wildly exaggerated.

Dr. Michael Siegel, a leading advocate of bans on smoking in the workplace because of the harm from daily exposure to secondhand smoke, says the 20 or 30 minute claims are ridiculous.

"If someone is just exposed for 30 minutes, it's completely reversible"..."I think the documented health effects of secondhand smoke are enough. I don't think we need to be stretching the truth," Siegel said.

Myth: Secondhand Smoke Is a Killer - ABC News

[Captain Obvious]

Originally Posted by EclecticEars

It's all about "feeling good," "not hurting anybody's feelings."

I gotta go on a jag for a moment...

I don't hate Democrats as political liberals, which Democrats now are and Republicans used to be, have actually brought us some great social advances in the 20th century, i.e.: weekends, ban on child labor, unionization of blue-collar industries, the Civil Rights Act. But we took the bad, also: affirmative action and Roe v. Wade (yes, I'm a pro-baby guy).

At any rate, forty years of legislative control by one party has resulted in initiatives like the proposal to ban psychotherapy or whatever it is to "cure the gay." Do I agree with the practice? Hell no. But who am I to criticize someone's willingness to undergo that and a therapist's willingness to provide that service? I'd also like to see legalization and regulation of drugs all the way across the board (I'm not a drug user and I know that would be a federal initiative), assisted death by individual consent, and to be permitted to smoke and drink on the beach in the parks, but I guess I'm asking for too much.

I don't necessarily agree with everything you say but I agree with the spirit of it. I think California is the example of what can happen when there is no moderation. We get stuff like Foie Gras bans, and two tax increase measures heading for the ballot. I also think the same thing happened at the national level when we had Bush and a Republican Congress and Obama with a Democratic Congress.

I kind of wish we had fewer politicians that were only beholden to their hyperpartisan base and had to compete for Republican and Democratic voters.

[Electric Blue]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

Not really, we've had a term limit law in place for a while now and I think we are worse off as a result.

I don't think term limits are the reason. It's not as if people who are career pols always get it right. Look at Brown.

[NewToCA]

Originally Posted by Trampass

I don't think term limits are the reason. It's not as if people who are career pols always get it right. Look at Brown.

I agree, based upon recent political direction I'll take "fear of the unknown" over retaining the current bunch.

[EclecticEars]

Originally Posted by NewToCA

I agree, based upon recent political direction I'll take "fear of the unknown" over retaining the current bunch.

I've already voted--and gladly made sure I did not vote for a single Democrat.

For examples at the federal level, look at the Republican Congress from 2001-06 under Bush (TSA, baby!) and the Democratic Congress from 2009-2010 (Obamacare behind closed doors, baby!) under Obama. Absolute power corrupts absolutely, you know.

[NewToCA]

What an open minded state... :

Under pressure from health advocates, Gov. Jerry Brown on Thursday removed a controversial physician from a state health board after she appeared in an industry-funded ad against a tobacco tax hike on the June ballot.

La Donna Porter, a physician at San Joaquin General Hospital in French Camp, had served since 2005 on a state advisory panel of medical experts


Jerry Brown fires doctor in anti-tobacco tax ad - Elections - The Sacramento Bee

[roadwarrior101]

I don't care if the money raised from Prop 29 is used for other purposes. Any additional tax on cigarettes, which discourages smoking is good in my opinion.

[Bulldogdad]

Originally Posted by NewToCA

What an open minded state... :

Under pressure from health advocates, Gov. Jerry Brown on Thursday removed a controversial physician from a state health board after she appeared in an industry-funded ad against a tobacco tax hike on the June ballot.

La Donna Porter, a physician at San Joaquin General Hospital in French Camp, had served since 2005 on a state advisory panel of medical experts


Jerry Brown fires doctor in anti-tobacco tax ad - Elections - The Sacramento Bee

The path to Hell runs through Utopia.