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Old 05-18-2012, 03:15 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,460 posts, read 19,989,062 times
Reputation: 4365

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano View Post
The federal government CAN'T spend its money evenly unless you really think they should spread federal workers and federal facilities everywhere equally. The "welfare" states that get more than they send to Washington - it isn't really that much money.
Umm...huh? Of course the federal government can spend its money evenly between the states. Of course, it would have to make adjusts slowly so the balance wouldn't be perfect every given year.

And yes, it is a lot of money, California is sending around $20 billion a year to other states.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano View Post
Nevada is messed up because they have governed badly.
How so?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano View Post
California was waiting to see how the current recession played out? That's one of the dumbest excuses I've heard for their problems. Prop 13 was an alarm signal over 30 years ago.
I'm not sure why'd you think this was an "excuse", to make meaningful adjusts you need to know about your revenue. Revenue was depressed during the recession and there was some hope it would return to normal, but federal policy has been terrible during this recession and its likely to only get worse. So....its time to make some reforms to adjust to the new dysfunctional reality....

I'm not sure why you're talking about Prop 13, though its certainly problematic in some respects, it has little to do with the state's current economic slump.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano View Post
As for pensions - why were they allowed to use unreasonable forecasted returns?
They weren't, the forecasts used were no different than those used by private pensions, other states, etc. But the projections were wrong and this is going to be a problem for many other states, businesses, etc. The only reason California is being singled out, as I keep saying, is for political reasons. California doesn't even have the largest short-falls.
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Old 05-18-2012, 04:20 PM
 
2,311 posts, read 3,489,027 times
Reputation: 1223
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
Umm...huh? Of course the federal government can spend its money evenly between the states. Of course, it would have to make adjusts slowly so the balance wouldn't be perfect every given year.

And yes, it is a lot of money, California is sending around $20 billion a year to other states.

I guess if you say it enough times, it becomes true.

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Old 05-18-2012, 05:14 PM
 
11,715 posts, read 40,309,597 times
Reputation: 7585
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
California is sending around $20 billion a year to other states.
California taxpayers, NOT California's government. If Washington gave me a rebate for my share of the $20B, I assume you think Sacramento should just take it, right?
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Old 05-18-2012, 07:43 PM
 
11,883 posts, read 6,467,117 times
Reputation: 13843
Chris Christie, Scott Walker, and Mitch Daniels all inherited states that had been run into the same fiscal mess by liberal progressives' policies as CA. Their states were hugely in debt and all three have totally turned their states around with major political, union, entitlement, and spending reforms and are now either on sound financial ground or close to it.

WHY, WHY, WHY can't CA learn from these other states that are succeeding with the same problems as CA except they do not have as large of an illegal immigrant population that they have to mega $$$ support----but they had all the other problems. Scott Walker did it without even raising taxes, and now because they are in such good fiscal shape, he is actually going to lower them.
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Old 05-18-2012, 11:04 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
13,715 posts, read 30,993,781 times
Reputation: 9270
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainrose View Post
Chris Christie, Scott Walker, and Mitch Daniels all inherited states that had been run into the same fiscal mess by liberal progressives' policies as CA. Their states were hugely in debt and all three have totally turned their states around with major political, union, entitlement, and spending reforms and are now either on sound financial ground or close to it.

WHY, WHY, WHY can't CA learn from these other states that are succeeding with the same problems as CA except they do not have as large of an illegal immigrant population that they have to mega $$$ support----but they had all the other problems. Scott Walker did it without even raising taxes, and now because they are in such good fiscal shape, he is actually going to lower them.
AFAIK, the feds didn't send these states $$$. There is little likelihood the White House would easily agree to direct federal spending in these states. Looks like NJ is a huge donor state at .55 cents spent by feds for every $1.00 sent to Wash DC.
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Old 05-18-2012, 11:41 PM
 
126 posts, read 204,902 times
Reputation: 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano View Post
AFAIK, the feds didn't send these states $$$. There is little likelihood the White House would easily agree to direct federal spending in these states. Looks like NJ is a huge donor state at .55 cents spent by feds for every $1.00 sent to Wash DC.
Taxes paid to the IRS in whatever manner (check, cash, etc) gets incinerated and destroyed. Taxes are not used to pay anything whatsoever. The IRS does not have any communication with the Fed reserve. The Fed govt has total monopoly in creating dollars, why would they need more of what they can manufacture themselves. The sole purpose of taxation is to control interest rates and to force the usage of the currency. Naturally and automatically states with more currency are more likely to have more taxes pulled out of their economy as opposed to states with less capital or money.
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Old 05-19-2012, 12:10 AM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,460 posts, read 19,989,062 times
Reputation: 4365
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano View Post
AFAIK, the feds didn't send these states $$$. There is little likelihood the White House would easily agree to direct federal spending in these states. Looks like NJ is a huge donor state at .55 cents spent by feds for every $1.00 sent to Wash DC.
Amazing, you guy are apparently in some alternate reality where these states are doing well when the exact opposite is the case. Wisconsin and New Jersey are both deteriorating... Wisconsin is now losing around ~6000 jobs a month...and New Jersey's unemployment rate has hardly bugged from the peaks during the recession.

If that is success, I'd hate to see failure... The irony here, of course, is that California's recovery has been stronger than both of these states...it just started in a deeper hole since it was ground zero for the real estate bubble.

Last edited by user_id; 05-19-2012 at 12:19 AM..
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Old 05-19-2012, 12:15 AM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,460 posts, read 19,989,062 times
Reputation: 4365
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeCalifornia View Post
California taxpayers, NOT California's government. If Washington gave me a rebate for my share of the $20B, I assume you think Sacramento should just take it, right?
I'm talking about the flow of federal spending, not tax rebates.
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Old 05-19-2012, 12:30 AM
 
11,715 posts, read 40,309,597 times
Reputation: 7585
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
I'm talking about the flow of federal spending, not tax rebates.
Yet you don't quite get that the flow of money from California to Washington is a matter between the tax payer and the Federal government and doesn't have anything to do with Sacramento's inability to manage its budget.
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Old 05-19-2012, 12:43 AM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,460 posts, read 19,989,062 times
Reputation: 4365
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeCalifornia View Post
Yet you don't quite get that the flow of money from California to Washington is a matter between the tax payer and the Federal government and doesn't have anything to do with Sacramento's inability to manage its budget.
I've already addressed this, if the tax dollars stayed in California they would stimulate the economy which would improve state tax revenue.

But I never presented this as a solution to California's budget, instead a solution to help dig California's economy out of the gigantic hole created from the collapse of the housing bubble.
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