California Budget : Same tune .. Different year (live in, earnings, pay)

[user_id]

Talking about a "fat tax" is cheap, talk about what it would result in.... The results of a flat tax, one that would raise sufficient revenue, would be this:

1.) The poor would pay more taxes
2.) The middle-class would pay more taxes
3.) Households making $150,000 or so more would pay less taxes. Wealthy households, i.e., those making more than $250,000 a year, would pay much less taxes.

Talking about a flat tax while pretending that the above won't happen demonstrates a profound innumeracy. So then, how will America society be benefited by the poor and middle-class paying more taxes and the top 10% or so paying less?

[TVC15]

Originally Posted by nullgeo

"Belief" is defined as "opinion" ... "Opinion" is defined as: "[a] ... judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty".

Originally Posted by nullgeo

I certainly agree that faith and religion are not the same.

^This is the same as a belief. BTW I also believe that statement.

Originally Posted by nullgeo

And I don't believe in "perfect" anything. I simply believe in responding realistically to changing venues.

I think you need to update your belief definition. Beliefs are what molds our opinions...but other factors can as well.

Beliefs are not the same as opinions. Opinions are subjective beliefs. Opinions may refer to unsubstantiated information, in contrast to knowledge and fact-based beliefs.

Simple analogy:

Religion vs. Evolution

Organized religious opinions are based upon unsubstantiated information whereas evolutionary opinion is based upon much substantiated scientific data.

[user_id]

Originally Posted by nullgeo

And I am guilty of incorrectly using common terms in an attempt to relate easily to persons not familiar with the topic.

Its confusing to the general public as well, the general public has a vague notion of a tribe vs hunter gather. Therefore saying "hunter gather" would convey the notion you want... When you say "tribe" people think of native Americans....

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by user_id

Its confusing to the general public as well, the general public has a vague notion of a tribe vs hunter gather. Therefore saying "hunter gather" would convey the notion you want... When you say "tribe" people think of native Americans....

I can't much help the general public being confused ... they are what they are.

I do usually use the term "hunter-gatherer" ... sometimes I add "band" sometimes I have added "tribe" ... Tribe is not actually incorrect, either. It is true, however, that anthropologists prefer and use the term "band" almost exclusively. But it is also true that some aboriginal tribes are quite small -- under the Dunbar Number in size -- and exist by hunter-gatherer lifestyle. Nevertheless, I do agree that it is more acceptable to use the term "band".

And now back to our regularly scheduled programming.

[TNEC_Dad]

Originally Posted by user_id

Talking about a "fat tax" is cheap, talk about what it would result in.... The results of a flat tax, one that would raise sufficient revenue, would be this:

1.) The poor would pay more taxes
2.) The middle-class would pay more taxes
3.) Households making $150,000 or so more would pay less taxes. Wealthy households, i.e., those making more than $250,000 a year, would pay much less taxes.

Talking about a flat tax while pretending that the above won't happen demonstrates a profound innumeracy. So then, how will America society be benefited by the poor and middle-class paying more taxes and the top 10% or so paying less?

More, Less, or Much Less related to what?

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by TVC15

^This is the same as a belief. BTW I also believe that statement.

" the White Queen (from Through the Looking Glass) says, "Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast." ... [a] mockery of the common ability of people to entertain beliefs contrary to fact."

Originally Posted by TVC15

I think you need to update your belief definition.

I'll do no such thing.

Originally Posted by TVC15

Beliefs are what molds our opinions...but other factors can as well.

Beliefs are not the same as opinions. Opinions are subjective beliefs. Opinions may refer to unsubstantiated information, in contrast to knowledge and fact-based beliefs.

Simple analogy:

Religion vs. Evolution

Organized religious opinions are based upon unsubstantiated information whereas evolutionary opinion is based upon much substantiated scientific data.

Nonsense semantics.

be·lief
   [bih-leef] Show IPA
noun 1. something believed; an opinion or conviction: a belief that the earth is flat.
2. confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof: a statement unworthy of belief.

[user_id]

Originally Posted by TNEC_Dad

More, Less, or Much Less related to what?

To what they are currently paying in taxes.

[TNEC_Dad]

be·lief

   /bɪˈlif/ Show Spelled[bih-leef] Show IPA
noun 1. something believed; an opinion or conviction: a belief that the earth is flat.

2. confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof: a statement unworthy of belief.

3. confidence; faith; trust: a child's belief in his parents.

4. a religious tenet or tenets; religious creed or faith: the Christian belief.

[TNEC_Dad]

Originally Posted by user_id

To what they are currently paying in taxes.

Exactly, but not in relation to each other nor their income.

What do you consider unfair, rather than an obvious variance from the current, about a flat tax?

[user_id]

Originally Posted by TNEC_Dad

Exactly, but not in relation to each other nor their income.

Umm...no. The relationship would be the same, the poor would pay the least, etc What I said, obviously, translates into their taxes as a percent of their income, so:

- The poor would pay a higher percent of taxes in relation to their income.
- The middle-class would pay a higher percent of taxes in relation to their income.
- The wealthy would pay a smaller percent of taxes in relation to their income.

Originally Posted by TNEC_Dad

What do you consider unfair, rather than an obvious variance from the current, about a flat tax?

I didn't say anything about fairness and you're still focusing on the cheap talk. Focus instead of the results of the respective tax systems and they are:

- The poor and middle-class pay more taxes with a flat-tax regime and the wealthy pay less.

Economically what does this result in? It results in a very high concentration of wealth in the top 10%. A flat-tax is a recipe for feudal society..... Now, are feudal societies unfair? You tell me...

I have no chips in this game (at least directly). If the middle-class want to lower my taxes and increase theirs "to stick it to the poor"...umm...okay. Good luck with that.