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Old 07-07-2012, 09:20 AM
 
1,635 posts, read 1,586,414 times
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To quote Red Foreman from "That 70s Show""Where's my flying car? We were supposed to have flying cars by now!".
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Old 07-07-2012, 09:40 AM
 
7,150 posts, read 10,833,676 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVA1990 View Post
You also need to factor in the benefits you'll get from the growth that will occur around the mid-point cities due to better transportation. It's quite possible the government's expenditure will be recouped indirectly through the additional tax revenues generated from those areas.
This is a very likely outcome ... and thus a great supportive argument for those who are focused on "growing" the state, thus increasing economic vitality and revenue, etc etc etc.

For me it is an argument against because I'd prefer to see the state shrink ... which isn't ever going to happen anyway, so ...
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Old 07-07-2012, 09:47 AM
 
1,271 posts, read 2,580,870 times
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Mineta Transportation Institute, Advancing High-Speed Rail Policy in the United States, I found it an interesting read.

http://transweb.sjsu.edu/PDFs/resear...ail-policy.pdf
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Old 07-07-2012, 11:22 AM
 
11,715 posts, read 40,309,597 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Think4Yourself View Post
If you build it, they will come.
Trains are great...for someone else to ride. Gets them off the road.
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Old 07-07-2012, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,129 posts, read 31,113,429 times
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I'm really tired of this current "small ball" way of thinking we've fallen into since the recession and tea-bagger ascendence. We're the wealthiest nation in the history of the planet and can afford to do stuff like this. We have companies and individuals sitting on billions because nobody has the vision or cojones to do big things. We should be doing hundreds of these kinds of projects regardless of their short term payback. Time to put America back to work and quit the whining.
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Old 07-07-2012, 12:01 PM
 
Location: In Transition
1,637 posts, read 1,900,732 times
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Here's some questions I have about this whole project:

1) Everyone loves to compare Japan's and France's success to CA's adventure. People who use HSR in Japan and France can take the subway or walk to the station. The vast majority of those who will use CA's HSR will have to drive an hour or two to get there, wait a while to get on, and then look for a rental car once they get dropped off far from their destination (another interesting read). Seriously, is this going to supplant current transportation to any real extent or is this just closing your eyes very tight and wishing upon a star hoping this will happen?

2) Where is the electricity going to come from to run CA's HSR when CA is in the rush to close all the existing power plants we currently have? Better get a WHHHHOOOOLLLLEEE lot of solar panels to run this sucker.

3) China went from proposition to running HSR train in 4 years. California voted in the bond to get going in 2008. Does this current effort include even more closing their eyes tightly and wishing really hard while hoards of NIMBYs are chomping at the bit to stop this? Or will this thing ever even get fully built at all?

4) For all the undefined immeasurable intangible economic perceived benefits of having HSR through places like Bakersfield, couldn't 60 (to probably 100) billion be spent directly on a factory or something and just widen the I-5?

5) Whatever happened to education funding? We're 16 billion in the hole and getting deeper, while this project is going to take 60 billion. Think of the children and schools.

6) Oh yeah, now money is being siphoned off HSR to fund local rail projects... Nice. Holy mother of whatever, can California politicians EVER spend money designated for a given task on that given task itself instead of shuffling it off to various other projects?

Last edited by jkbatca; 07-07-2012 at 12:38 PM..
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Old 07-07-2012, 12:06 PM
 
4,236 posts, read 8,078,191 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVA1990 View Post
I'm really tired of this current "small ball" way of thinking we've fallen into since the recession and tea-bagger ascendence. We're the wealthiest nation in the history of the planet and can afford to do stuff like this. We have companies and individuals sitting on billions because nobody has the vision or cojones to do big things. We should be doing hundreds of these kinds of projects regardless of their short term payback. Time to put America back to work and quit the whining.
I don’t see a how private and publicly traded company sitting on billions has anything to do with this topic. I supported and voted for a high-speed rail system back in the day, but with ever escalating costs I see this as nothing more than a boondoggle for lawyers and environmentalists.

It’s even more laughable that they’re building the first phase between two dirt-poor cities. I don’t see many farmers or migrant farm workers riding this money train. They should build the first phase between the bay area and Sacramento. I sure hope they don’t find any fairy shrimp along the path.
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Old 07-07-2012, 12:28 PM
 
Location: in a galaxy far far away
19,097 posts, read 16,465,254 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fargobound View Post
I don’t see a how private and publicly traded company sitting on billions has anything to do with this topic. I supported and voted for a high-speed rail system back in the day, but with ever escalating costs I see this as nothing more than a boondoggle for lawyers and environmentalists.

It’s even more laughable that they’re building the first phase between two dirt-poor cities. I don’t see many farmers or migrant farm workers riding this money train. They should build the first phase between the bay area and Sacramento. I sure hope they don’t find any fairy shrimp along the path.

I was thinking exactly the same thing, last night. In fact, the reporter questioned it, too. He couldn't see how building this first stretch between Merced and Bakersfield was going to benefit anyone in San Francisco and Los Angeles. The entire project that will make it possible to travel from San Francisco to LA (via Merced) isn't going to be completed until 2033.
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Old 07-07-2012, 12:28 PM
 
Location: SW MO
23,593 posts, read 37,301,329 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fargobound View Post
It’s even more laughable that they’re building the first phase between two dirt-poor cities. I don’t see many farmers or migrant farm workers riding this money train. They should build the first phase between the bay area and Sacramento. I sure hope they don’t find any fairy shrimp along the path.
And be sure that driving pilings doesn't disturb the delta smelt.
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Old 07-07-2012, 12:34 PM
 
Location: In Transition
1,637 posts, read 1,900,732 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HereOnMars View Post
I was thinking exactly the same thing, last night. In fact, the reporter questioned it, too. He couldn't see how building this first stretch between Merced and Bakersfield was going to benefit anyone in San Francisco and Los Angeles. The entire project that will make it possible to travel from San Francisco to LA (via Merced) isn't going to be completed until 2033.
The reason they built it there was that stretch of rail had the least number of NIMBYs against it at that site. Wait until they hit some more environmentally sensitive areas or near some expensive houses and see how quickly that stretch gets built.
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