California compared to Italy, Greece, and Spain (attorneys, taxi)

[.highnlite]

Originally Posted by Reason42

Come to ANY ER in any large city or near the Southern border, any night, any day, any time...

Dem durned illegals again, mucking up this fine nation, we jess be durned lucky dem Mezzcans aint' muslims too.

[Think4Yourself]

Originally Posted by SEAandATL

Just read this article:

California, Greece, Spain and Italy have plenty in common | UTSanDiego.com

What are your thoughts? I've also heard California being compared to Japan, which is the exact opposite of those 3 European nations.

The UT is owned by Doug Manchester who helped write prop 8 and who is a GOP apparatchik. If the paper was any further to the right it would fall off the edge.

BTW California's debt is ~18% of the GDP while Greece and Italy are up around 200% so it's just more nonsensical babble from the right wing dullards.

[ZhugeLiang]

Originally Posted by CarawayDJ

Ya know, this is one of the reasons why I think ObamaReform is anything but ObamaCare, and not even a very good reform. I'll reiterate that I absolutely want a national healthcare and am willing to pay for it. BUT...I too wouldn't mind seeing the results of some common sense measures. Not sure why they didn't succeed in getting interstate competition in ObamaReform. I recognize there were hurdles, but you would think that would be a high priority.

If it were workable, then fine, I'd be cool with it. But show me where even national healthcare-lite has worked. We have the ever insolvent Medicare, and how's that California system been working out? Enough said. Competition was never the point of ACA. It was a power grab, nothing more. Enhanced powers to the IRS? Done. Collusion between Big Pharma and the federal government, you bet. Not sure why so many people were willing to embrace textbook fascism, but I guess caring sells.

All we have to show for ACA so far is a massive tax increase on the middle class and poor. As far as quality of care, you think we have doctor shortages now? Just wait.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by TrueTimbers

Not Europe as a whole.... Northern Europe, Germany, and Scandinavia... They pay the bills anyway... They just keep the PIIGS around to keep the Euro from going through the roof, which would hurt their manufacturing exports..

Quite right. But the thing progressives don't get is that America is too corrupt/incompetent/diverse to ever pull off a Scandinavian style welfare state.

Germany's government finances aren't all that strong, either. They are more of a case of being the best house in a bad neighborhood.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by CarawayDJ

I'm 100% for a national healthcare but don't like ObamaCare for 2 reasons:



2. I don't like how the costs are being downplayed and hidden with funny math. I fear we will get most of the costs of a real healthcare plan without realizing the benefits of a real healthcare plan.

This is true for ANY kind of government sponsored medicine/insurance in the US. Just look at Medicare/Medicaid. The costs keep skyrocketing and and all the while continue to be swept under the rug. I know progressives don't want to let go of the illusion that the US can copy Europe/Canada...but if we did a good job with government sponsored medicine (cost wise as well as care wise) Medicare/Medicaid would have already proven it.

What many people don't seem to understand is we have a large private health care system but since World War 2, we have NOT had a free market health care system; and THAT is the true underlying cause of rip off health care costs and mediocre care.

Anyone who actually wants to open their minds can read more here:

Amazon.com: Who Killed Health Care?: America's $2 Trillion Medical Problem - and the Consumer-Driven Cure (9780071487801): Regina Herzlinger: Books

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by CarawayDJ

No system of health care can reach an equilibrium with "great quality" and "affordability"/"access for all"... These are mutually exclusive.

I say your assertion is BS. America generally has the same or lower cost of living than Europe with almost everything else but health care. The reason? We have freer markets. The one area where the market is rigged with limited competition? Health care.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by CarawayDJ

Not sure why they didn't succeed in getting interstate competition in ObamaReform. I recognize there were hurdles, but you would think that would be a high priority.

Answer: Because our government is corrupt and is more concerned with centralizing power and control than having a decent system. Republicans centralize power and control at the Big Business level. Democrats do it with Big Government. The two entities are so intertwined these days, you can hardly tell one from the other. We need to get it through our heads that none of the people at the top in government give a darn about us. We are just pawns to them.

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by mysticaltyger

... Germany's government finances aren't all that strong, either. They are more of a case of being the best house in a bad neighborhood.

Germany has the world's fourth leading economy, following only the U.S., China, and Japan. That's a BIG neighborhood.

[.highnlite]

Originally Posted by nullgeo

Germany has the world's fourth leading economy, following only the U.S., China, and Japan. That's a BIG neighborhood.

Oh, but you must remember, they are socialist, and therefore, bad, bad, bad, although why socialism makes it so, I do not know.

[Reason42]

Originally Posted by .highnlite

Dem durned illegals again, mucking up this fine nation, we jess be durned lucky dem Mezzcans aint' muslims too.

Wow.

I resent your implications.
I thought you above this.