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Old 09-13-2012, 05:47 PM
 
450 posts, read 1,406,419 times
Reputation: 406

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Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
"Spectrum Locations Consultants recorded 254 California companies moved some or all of their work and jobs out of state in 2011, 26% more than in 2010 and five times as many as in 2009. According SLC President, Joe Vranich: the “top ten reasons companies are leaving California: 1) Poor rankings in surveys 2) More adversarial toward business 3) Uncontrollable public spending 4) Unfriendly business climate 5) Provable savings elsewhere 6) Most expensive business locations 7) Unfriendly legal environment for business 8) Worst regulatory burden 9) Severe tax treatment 10) Unprecedented energy costs.[LEFT]Read more at Mish's Global Economic Trend Analysis: California Tax Revenues Plunge; Businesses Exit "Taxifornia" in Droves; Piecing Together the Jobs-Picture Puzzle"
[/LEFT]
Three questions expatCA:
Spectrum Locations Consultants is in the business of relocations. The worse picture they paint, the better their business can be. In light of that:

1.) They did not analyze the "net" change in businesses. How many businesses started or moved into the state for every business lost to another state? I noticed they have no data on this, because it doesn't serve their business line. Hypothetically, 254 businesses could have left and 500 new businesses could have started or entered.

2.) They did not analyze how many employees worked at these businesses that moved. Say there were 50 people per business on average as we know most of these are small family business (most likely). That is 12,700 jobs. Its a rather small amount of the total jobs lost. Do you have data on how many jobs were lost with these 254 job "re-locations".

3.) The list of 254 businesses also includes a business that "expanded" outside of California. So 200 of those could have been businesses that just added an employee outside of California, whereas 54 could have actually packed up shop and totally left the state. If a restaurant chain is prospering in California, it may grow into another state. This shows the business is PROSPERING. However, that business would make the Strategic Locations list as if it is a bad thing. In-n-Out is doing well for example and adding locations of of state due to its success in California. This is a good thing for a CA company and the U.S. as a whole. If Wells Fargo hires somebody outside of California, then it makes its on the list because its California based. Well then, California currently has job openings by numerous states headquartered out of state. They didn't track how many other states have businesses hiring in California though, did they.
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Old 09-13-2012, 05:51 PM
 
Location: San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties
6,390 posts, read 9,678,559 times
Reputation: 2622
Quote:
It is not CA's fault that it is being run into the ground by idiots who can't manage the state and more idiots who fail to grasp what is the cause of CA's problems and choose to keep their heads in the sand. And then those who feel they must bash Texas or other states to defend CA
I dunno, lots of trucks on the roads moving products around the state, lots of crops growing in the fields, that alone is worth $600 billion a year to the state. I see no shortage of expensive cars on the road, expensive houses in the towns, things seem to be humming along.

Doom and Gloom ers, are Doom and Gloom ers, successful people pay little attention to them.

I read a recent essay in Bloomberg I think it was. The recession exists primarily among non college graduates, Among college graduates, unemployment is low, jobs are out there.

Actually, there are plenty of jobs for the non college educated too. A great labor shortage in the fields. Because of the labor shortage, crops cannot be harvested efficiently. We are leaving a lot of food in the fields, as it cannot be harvested fast enough to avoid over ripening. That is pretty sad, and will reflect in your grocery bills.
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Old 09-13-2012, 05:53 PM
 
4,236 posts, read 8,135,335 times
Reputation: 10208
This is not a problem California can fix. The voters of California have declared war on any business that operates outside of a cubicle via AB32, but they don't realize they rammed a hot poker up their bums.

Maybe California should open up it’s coastline to drilling, it can’t be any worse than what the “green” cities like SF dump into the bay with it’s antiquated sewer system.
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Old 09-13-2012, 06:43 PM
 
9,891 posts, read 11,755,923 times
Reputation: 22087
Quote:
Actually, there are plenty of jobs for the non college educated too. A great labor shortage in the fields. Because of the labor shortage, crops cannot be harvested efficiently. We are leaving a lot of food in the fields, as it cannot be harvested fast enough to avoid over ripening. That is pretty sad, and will reflect in your grocery bills.
Shows how little you know about farming. The average city dweller sent out into the fields to harvest crops is about worthless. It is one of the most difficult back breaking work there is. The average city dweller, is too soft to be worth anything to the farmers, as they will be too slow and inefficient to earn any money. They get out of the fields when they realize that they will be working piecework paid for the amount of the crop they pick, and find they are making only a dollar or so an hour. They will last maybe an hour, and is not a solution to the unemployment problem.

Quote:
I read a recent essay in Bloomberg I think it was. The recession exists primarily among non college graduates, Among college graduates, unemployment is low, jobs are out there.
But lets look at the facts:

Over 50% of graduates the past 3 years, are either unemployed or way underemployed. They may have a job, but it may very well be as a waiter, or at McDonald's counter, etc., etc., but certainly not in the field they trained in.

More than half of young college graduates are unemployed or underemployed | Fight Back!

Jobless or underemployed and buried in debt: Welcome to your bleak future, Class of 2012 - Interviews - On the Record - Fox News

Finding the right job | World on Campus: news for college students from a Christian perspective.

53% of Recent College Grads Are Jobless or Underemployed—How? - Jordan Weissmann - The Atlantic

More than half of young college graduates are unemployed or underemployed | Fight Back!

The Class of 2012: Labor market for young graduates remains grim | Economic Policy Institute

In Weak Job Market, One In Two College Graduates Are Jobless Or Underemployed

The no-jobs generation | SocialistWorker.org
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Old 09-13-2012, 09:51 PM
 
5,975 posts, read 13,111,142 times
Reputation: 4907
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtrader View Post
Shows how little you know about farming. The average city dweller sent out into the fields to harvest crops is about worthless. It is one of the most difficult back breaking work there is. The average city dweller, is too soft to be worth anything to the farmers, as they will be too slow and inefficient to earn any money. They get out of the fields when they realize that they will be working piecework paid for the amount of the crop they pick, and find they are making only a dollar or so an hour. They will last maybe an hour, and is not a solution to the unemployment problem.



But lets look at the facts:

Over 50% of graduates the past 3 years, are either unemployed or way underemployed. They may have a job, but it may very well be as a waiter, or at McDonald's counter, etc., etc., but certainly not in the field they trained in.

More than half of young college graduates are unemployed or underemployed | Fight Back!

Jobless or underemployed and buried in debt: Welcome to your bleak future, Class of 2012 - Interviews - On the Record - Fox News

Finding the right job | World on Campus: news for college students from a Christian perspective.

53% of Recent College Grads Are Jobless or Underemployed—How? - Jordan Weissmann - The Atlantic

More than half of young college graduates are unemployed or underemployed | Fight Back!

The Class of 2012: Labor market for young graduates remains grim | Economic Policy Institute

In Weak Job Market, One In Two College Graduates Are Jobless Or Underemployed

The no-jobs generation | SocialistWorker.org
First of all, Highnlite has a farm I think, right Highnlite?

Secondly, I grew up an upper middle class suburban existence, and I worked on a farm picking fruits and vegetables for a summer. Yeah, it was work, and the pay wasn't great. But I enjoyed it anyways, I learned a bit about growing your own, got to eat some tasty surplus. Obviously not a career job.

Interestingly enough, people don't understand that is is for this reason, the fruit/produce agriculture of California, is why California has the large number of illegal immigration, not because of any socialist government policy.

I graduating from undergrad with my bachelors in 2002, when the economy was still going great, and even then, I had to settle mostly for short term, low pay, temp time of positions in my field, with very brief periods of unemployment in between. You just have to pay your dues, even with a college degree. But eventually that resume full of experience pays off.
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Old 09-13-2012, 10:36 PM
 
Location: Police State
1,472 posts, read 2,409,223 times
Reputation: 1232
Quote:
Originally Posted by .highnlite View Post

I read a recent essay in Bloomberg I think it was. The recession exists primarily among non college graduates, Among college graduates, unemployment is low, jobs are out there.
A claim that cannot possibly be quantified. So with 30 million Americans out of work or working involuntary part-time, unemployment/underemployment is only a concern of those without college degrees?

You know that just isn't true.
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Old 09-14-2012, 02:43 AM
 
Location: Where they serve real ale.
7,242 posts, read 7,903,542 times
Reputation: 3497
Quote:
Originally Posted by coo77 View Post
Three questions expatCA:
Spectrum Locations Consultants is in the business of relocations. The worse picture they paint, the better their business can be. In light of that:

1.) They did not analyze the "net" change in businesses. How many businesses started or moved into the state for every business lost to another state? I noticed they have no data on this, because it doesn't serve their business line. Hypothetically, 254 businesses could have left and 500 new businesses could have started or entered.

2.) They did not analyze how many employees worked at these businesses that moved. Say there were 50 people per business on average as we know most of these are small family business (most likely). That is 12,700 jobs. Its a rather small amount of the total jobs lost. Do you have data on how many jobs were lost with these 254 job "re-locations".

3.) The list of 254 businesses also includes a business that "expanded" outside of California. So 200 of those could have been businesses that just added an employee outside of California, whereas 54 could have actually packed up shop and totally left the state. If a restaurant chain is prospering in California, it may grow into another state. This shows the business is PROSPERING. However, that business would make the Strategic Locations list as if it is a bad thing. In-n-Out is doing well for example and adding locations of of state due to its success in California. This is a good thing for a CA company and the U.S. as a whole. If Wells Fargo hires somebody outside of California, then it makes its on the list because its California based. Well then, California currently has job openings by numerous states headquartered out of state. They didn't track how many other states have businesses hiring in California though, did they.
What matters is net change in business and employment and the reality is EVERYTHING I've seen is that the number of companies coming in (weighted for employment) is about equal to the number of companies leaving (weighted for employment). It's part of the natural ebb and flow of a capitalist society. There simply is not a huge number of companies leaving. The state literally has tens of millions of companies and we're supposed to get worked up over 250 per year leaving when something like 200 per year are coming in?

Our right wing friends are just brain damaged and suck down propaganda without even stopping to think if the BS makes any sense.
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Old 09-14-2012, 08:10 AM
 
Location: San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties
6,390 posts, read 9,678,559 times
Reputation: 2622
Quote:
Shows how little you know about farming. The average city dweller sent out into the fields to harvest crops is about worthless. It is one of the most difficult back breaking work there is. The average city dweller, is too soft to be worth anything to the farmers, as they will be too slow and inefficient to earn any money. They get out of the fields when they realize that they will be working piecework paid for the amount of the crop they pick, and find they are making only a dollar or so an hour. They will last maybe an hour, and is not a solution to the unemployment problem.
Dang, You are so knowledgable on the subject. And, I guess, I don't know much about it, our family has only been farming a thousand acres of produce for a little over 100 years on the coast of CA.

I enjoy Zhugies posts, they are such fun bubbles to pop.


How the Great Recession Proved, Beyond a Doubt, the Value of a College Degree - Jordan Weissmann - The Atlantic
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Old 09-14-2012, 08:21 AM
 
18,172 posts, read 16,382,802 times
Reputation: 9328
Quote:
Originally Posted by coo77 View Post
Three questions expatCA:
Spectrum Locations Consultants is in the business of relocations. The worse picture they paint, the better their business can be. In light of that:

1.) They did not analyze the "net" change in businesses. How many businesses started or moved into the state for every business lost to another state? I noticed they have no data on this, because it doesn't serve their business line. Hypothetically, 254 businesses could have left and 500 new businesses could have started or entered.

2.) They did not analyze how many employees worked at these businesses that moved. Say there were 50 people per business on average as we know most of these are small family business (most likely). That is 12,700 jobs. Its a rather small amount of the total jobs lost. Do you have data on how many jobs were lost with these 254 job "re-locations".

3.) The list of 254 businesses also includes a business that "expanded" outside of California. So 200 of those could have been businesses that just added an employee outside of California, whereas 54 could have actually packed up shop and totally left the state. If a restaurant chain is prospering in California, it may grow into another state. This shows the business is PROSPERING. However, that business would make the Strategic Locations list as if it is a bad thing. In-n-Out is doing well for example and adding locations of of state due to its success in California. This is a good thing for a CA company and the U.S. as a whole. If Wells Fargo hires somebody outside of California, then it makes its on the list because its California based. Well then, California currently has job openings by numerous states headquartered out of state. They didn't track how many other states have businesses hiring in California though, did they.
To some extent your questions are misdirection.

Regardless of the other details, businesses are leaving or expanding elsewhere. They are not keeping their money, employees or even the "prosperity" they are experiencing In CA. If it was a restaurant chain, what restaurant chain? I know of none.

They are leaving and it isn't because CA is an ugly State, has crummy people and nothing appealing about it. They are leaving for some reason that overpowers the good in CA.

WHY?

The "Why" is the issue.
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Old 09-14-2012, 08:24 AM
 
18,172 posts, read 16,382,802 times
Reputation: 9328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Think4Yourself View Post
The state literally has tens of millions of companies and we're supposed to get worked up over 250 per year leaving when something like 200 per year are coming in?
There went your argument.

Did you learn math in CA?
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