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Old 09-04-2012, 05:14 PM
 
943 posts, read 1,320,580 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtrader View Post
The difference between today and the depression years (I lived in California through the depression), is that during the depression the whole country was in similar problems. Today, California has more than its share of serious problems. It really comes down to, are the people in California willing to take the austerity steps needed to solve the problem. That is the question. Willing to cut the tax rate for corporations, reduce regulatory agencies by combining them to maybe 5 or 6 instead of over 50 effecting businesses so businesses will be able to quickly make decisions to move into the state or enlarge their operation there instead of current about 2 years needed to go through all the hurdles. Make the state a business friendly state, to influence large employers to quit leaving the state and to go into business there. To cut the income tax rate on higher paid individuals and wealthy to slow or stop the exodus, taking their money and taking the taxes they would have paid with them. And this is just the start.
That isn't how we ended the Depression, according to any history books I've read.
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Old 09-04-2012, 07:28 PM
 
9,891 posts, read 11,755,923 times
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The depression ended, when we went to war for WWII. That brought us back to full employment, as people went to war making war materials.
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Old 09-04-2012, 10:17 PM
 
5,975 posts, read 13,111,142 times
Reputation: 4907
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtrader View Post
The difference between today and the depression years (I lived in California through the depression), is that during the depression the whole country was in similar problems. Today, California has more than its share of serious problems. It really comes down to, are the people in California willing to take the austerity steps needed to solve the problem. That is the question. Willing to cut the tax rate for corporations, reduce regulatory agencies by combining them to maybe 5 or 6 instead of over 50 effecting businesses so businesses will be able to quickly make decisions to move into the state or enlarge their operation there instead of current about 2 years needed to go through all the hurdles. Make the state a business friendly state, to influence large employers to quit leaving the state and to go into business there. To cut the income tax rate on higher paid individuals and wealthy to slow or stop the exodus, taking their money and taking the taxes they would have paid with them. And this is just the start.
The rest of the whole country is experiencing similar problems!! This is a nation-wide recession!

Just because a few northern Great Plains states that never experienced a housing boom due to the fact that no one would in their right mind would buy a vacation home there, and have low unemployment rates in a region that sits on oil, with a climate and isolation that bears to mind Siberia, does not mean the rest of the country is not experiencing the same struggles as California.

And once again, the rich are not the ones leaving. For the rich, California is great. They may take advantage of low taxes by buying a second home and using it as a tax shelter. The wealthy areas of coastal California from San Francisco to San Diego is the most desirable real estate in the country. People who are truly wealthy are not going to move to North Dakota to take advantage of the lower cost of living. The truly rich are NOT going to trade in 72 degrees and sunny with an ocean view in one direction with mountains in the other, with every type of entertainment and dining option in between for a gigantic home in 10 degree wind chill blowing across endless wheat stubble and feedlots. It is the middle class, either those young couples starting out who want to buy their first home, or those who are retiring, who have to make their retirement savings stretch.

Oldtrader, you obviously have more years on you than the rest of us, but California has geographic characteristics that NO STATE CAN REPLICATE.

NO STATE is on the Pacific Rim, with ports and harbors that are the ONLY link between the booming Pacific rim and the interior of the country, as well as having the river basins and Mediterranean climate to grow Americas fruits and vegetables. Can Montana handle freight? Can Wyoming grow every fruit and vegetable in quantities to export to the rest of the country. Does South Dakota or Arkansas or West Virginia have the educational institutions that train people to develop our computer softward.

Taxes are only ONE THING that affects where businesses go. And while it is important, you are the biggest broken record on this forum. Over and over and over and over and over and over again. The same thing every day.

Last edited by Tex?Il?; 09-04-2012 at 10:28 PM..
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Old 09-05-2012, 12:50 PM
 
630 posts, read 1,264,535 times
Reputation: 646
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtrader View Post
The difference between today and the depression years (I lived in California through the depression), is that during the depression the whole country was in similar problems. Today, California has more than its share of serious problems. It really comes down to, are the people in California willing to take the austerity steps needed to solve the problem. That is the question. Willing to cut the tax rate for corporations, reduce regulatory agencies by combining them to maybe 5 or 6 instead of over 50 effecting businesses so businesses will be able to quickly make decisions to move into the state or enlarge their operation there instead of current about 2 years needed to go through all the hurdles. Make the state a business friendly state, to influence large employers to quit leaving the state and to go into business there. To cut the income tax rate on higher paid individuals and wealthy to slow or stop the exodus, taking their money and taking the taxes they would have paid with them. And this is just the start.
So... basically, you mean austerity for everyone except big businesses.
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Old 09-05-2012, 03:22 PM
 
9,891 posts, read 11,755,923 times
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Quote:
Workaholics -- So... Basically, you mean austerity for everyone except big businesses.
Big business is hurting also, especially in California. The U.S. has slipped two places down the ranks of global Competitiveness. The problem is, if you stifle big business with too high taxes, and too much regulation as California has, then they move from the state, and even from the country. There is only so much they can charge for their goods and services or sales rapidly decline.

Imagine that if you have a business in Los Angelos California, all you have to do is more to an adjoining county and reduce your costs of doing business by 20%.

Move it to another state, and reduce your costs of doing business by 40%.

If your product maximum sales value to maintain your level of production is $200. Imagine your net profit being in Los Angelos is $10, which is too small a profit to survive in the long run. No money for improving the factory, giving the workers higher wages or benefits, or putting into a rainy day fund to survive if the economy turns down again. It can cause a decision to be made to lay off some workers, or reduce benefits.

Move to another close by county, and your profit jumps to $50, and more to another state your profit jumps to $90. That is $90 that can be used to expand the business, put into a rainy day fund, and increase stockholder dividends. With the higher profit, you can even cut the price and take a little less profit, which can increase overall sales and bring in a lot more profit. It can allow the company to increase wages to employees, and increase benefits, and hire more people.

Under these possibilities, maybe you can understand why businesses are fleeing California the state that is rated the most unfriendly to business location of all states. It is a matter of survival, and while business is slow this is an ideal time to do so, to be in the best position to take real advantage of the times if the recession finally ends.

Quote:
Tex -- Just because a few northern Great Plains states that never experienced a housing boom due to the fact that no one would in their right mind would buy a vacation home there, and have low unemployment rates in a region that sits on oil, with a climate and isolation that bears to mind Siberia, does not mean the rest of the country is not experiencing the same struggles as California.
Those areas had a housing boom, but did not over inflate values as in California where speculators got into the action. As to rich not buying vacation homes, you have not been to Montana. They not only buy vacation homes building mansions on the mountain sides, ski chalets, they also buy ranches, farms, etc., such as Ted Turner with the largest Buffalo herds in the nation.

As to unemployment rates, there are lots of states that do not have overly high unemployment rates with California way out of the norm for the country. States that do not have oil under them have no where near Californias unemployment rate.

Unemployment Rates for States

Note only 3 of the 15 lowest unemployment rates, are in states affected by the oil boom. South Dakota, Montana, and Wyoming. Montana in our area which is not in the oil boom, is under 5% unemployment rate. The reason that Montana is rated as having a 6.4% unemployment rate, is we have 7 Indian reservations under the control of the U.S. Government some as large as some states, where due to the way the Feds have held them down have up to a 24% unemployment, rate, thanks to the Federal Government.

Unemployment Rates for States

As to the economy and how the states are rated, Montana has the 18th best economy in the country, and California is rated 43rd best or right down near the bottom. California infrastructure and transportation is rated as as the 30th best in the country and Montana is rated as the 18th best. Under quality of life, Montana is rated 18th best, and this is one place California is close at the 20th highest quality of life. Under Cost to do Business they rate Montana as 7th best in the country, while California is rated clear down at 48th place. The Montana education system is rated far above California is another example.

America's Top States for Business 2012 - Cost of Living Rankings - CNBC

June 2012, 1 in every 325 homes, went into foreclosure in California about the worst in the nation. In Montana it was 1 in 3,603.

Montana has one big problem, we do not have a large available workforce to fill jobs when companies want to move here. Last year a company wanted to open in Montana with 300 well paid jobs. To select a location they advertised in 3 major cities in Montana for future workers. They only got 50 to 75 applications at each place. Not enough available workforce, so they went to a Midwestern state.

California does lead some ways, compared to many places. Dirtiest and most unhealthy air in the nation. In the top 15 for High Crime Rate. Fifth highest homelessness rate for Children.

You are telling us why California is so great, and the rest of the country especially Montana is so bad, but when they are compared by experts California loses. That is why California is not recovering like most of the country. That is why companies are moving out of California to other states. And yes, even the rich are leaving because of high taxes, etc.
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Old 09-05-2012, 03:26 PM
 
Location: Declezville, CA
16,806 posts, read 39,926,478 times
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Brevity is the soul of... better C-D posts. YTG has been reincarnated into a senior citizen's body.
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Old 09-06-2012, 09:02 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
30,708 posts, read 79,757,770 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex?Il? View Post
No. THere are 57, our president told us so.
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Old 09-06-2012, 09:57 AM
 
18,172 posts, read 16,382,802 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
No. THere are 57, our president told us so.
And it wasn't Bush either.
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Old 09-06-2012, 12:47 PM
 
450 posts, read 1,406,419 times
Reputation: 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtrader View Post
.
You are telling us why California is so great, and the rest of the country especially Montana is so bad, but when they are compared by experts California loses. That is why California is not recovering like most of the country. That is why companies are moving out of California to other states. And yes, even the rich are leaving because of high taxes, etc.
OK, comparing California and Montana is rather silly. Montana has 2.6% of the population of California. 2.6%! Do you realize how small that is??? Montana was not nearly as connected to the recession as a state like California that had real estate investments, homeowners, employers, etc... much more connected to the global economy and the impact of a housing market collapse. It also doesn't have close to the amount of people to provide state services to, does not have immigration from abroad, does not have that many companies to even regulate if regulations were in place, and does not have to deal with a large population of numerous social classes from extraordinarily rich billionaires to urban poverty.

Montana's economy and California economy are so different and California's economy is so much bigger it is hard to even compare. California is the 8th largest economy in the WORLD. Its economy is bigger than Spain, Canada, India, Russia, Mexico, Netherlands, and most countries on earth.

California GDP: $1,911,822,000,000
Montana GDP: $35,267,000,000
Montana's economy is 1.8% the size of California's
Montana has no Fortune 500 companies. No Google that has changed search, No Walt Disney Co. that has changed entertainment, No Broadcom innovating semi-conductors, No Apple that has literally changed the way we experience hand-held devices, No Stanford or UCLA or Berkeley or USC that are world ranked universities leading research, No dominance in national agriculture, No Amgen leading life saving innovations in pharmaceuticals, No Jet Propulsion Laboratory that just sent a rover to Mars, AND SO MUCH MORE...

California has A TON of issues, but comparing to Montana is just ridiculous. You enjoy your low unemployment and economy based on Wal-Mart, Starbucks retail, brewing bear, logging, and government work. Those of us in California need to sort some stuff out while at the same time remaining at the forefront of changing the world so you and every other person on earth can enjoy the fashion, entertainment, technology, medical technology, space research, financial services, social networking, agriculture, etc... our state is a leader in.

Last edited by coo77; 09-06-2012 at 12:59 PM..
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Old 09-06-2012, 01:41 PM
 
444 posts, read 665,048 times
Reputation: 844
But, but the state is riddled with earthquakes, illegals, gay people and taxes! IT'S ARMAGEDDON FOR CALIFORNIA!!!
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