Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > California
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-08-2012, 08:34 AM
 
5,980 posts, read 13,118,780 times
Reputation: 4920

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by mongozx View Post
oldtrader: You're trying to paint a picture for yourself of a post-apocalyptic, favela riddled California. For all we know you probably see California from a distance as becoming something like this:




Images not mine

Do you honestly think this will be the case? You seem to get off on this idea as you keep blabbering to yourself these baseless facts and figures that you can't back up. Aside from the LA Times article, which someone pointed out was about the whole nation not just California, you have NOT provided any links to provide any credibility to your propagandistic agenda. I'm most curious about your claim that 5 companies leave the state each week. Until you provide a link then we'll all assume you just pulled it out your ass.

Now to put it simply again: YES. California, the state I live in and cheerlead for, is having problems. Which significant part of the country isn't these days? But it is definitely not in the shape you claim it is or will be. You know how I know? I look at my surroundings.

I lived in Southern California my entire life. The worst I've ever seen this region by far was in the late 1990's. The aerospace industry, SoCal's economic powerhouse, got hammered by the defense cuts of the post-Cold War era. As a result, housing-retail-tourism-everything collapsed. The most vivid memory I had of those times were the countless FOR SALE signs in almost every neighborhood and the abundance of FOR LEASE signs in the shopping centers. Slowly but surely the region pulled itself out of the recession and eventually things were humming along.

Today, in these so-called "tough times", I've never seen anything remotely like the 90's. Homes are being bought up right after foreclosure, construction is on the rebound, businesses are flourishing. I'm a restaurant owner myself looking to expand and space is practically hard to find. It's come down to when I find a space I feel like I have to jump on it the same way football players have to jump on a fumble. My restaurant BTW is having another record year in revenue and profit hence the need for expansion. I speak with other business owners on a regular basis and I've never had one tell me "things are horrible! We're goin down!" In fact quite the contrary. Optimism abounds here in San Diego and Los Angeles. What your pessimistic little mind doesn't seem to remember is that economies are just like stocks. It ebbs and flows up and down. California isn't immune to it especially.

So from my standpoint as a resident and entrepreneur things are quite dandy here in California thank you very much. You can sputter all the uneducated, unproven claims from your little perch all you want but unless you live here or at least prove what you post, it's all crap propaganda that you believe or made up yourself.
Whats interesting, is I watched the LANBC news a few days ago, where the reporter was asking small business owners, mostly restaurants owners in Redondo Beach/South Bay about whether or not things are better or worse compared to four years ago. It was a mix of answers, some said its better some said its worse.

But after they were interviewed, the reporter mentioned that there were MANY restaurant owners in the South Bay they talked to, that said things are getting better but did NOT want to be on camera, because many of their customers live in the Palos Verdes area, one of the most republican areas of LA County, and saying that things are better than four years ago, would be perceived as being pro-Obama, and were concerned they would lose their customers from that areas.

Very interesting.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-08-2012, 09:45 AM
 
272 posts, read 322,423 times
Reputation: 470
South Bay is booming, thanks to SV hiring (is it another bubble, this time with social network?). But it is not really typical for California as a whole state. What was the point to take that interview there?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-08-2012, 10:12 AM
 
943 posts, read 1,320,919 times
Reputation: 900
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtrader View Post
Lets consider what gives me a little more understanding of what is going on than people that are untrained. Former College Business Instructor. All my life in business world. International Corporation up to Division Sales Manager for half the U.S. leaving only because I was tired of being transferred to solve the companies needs. Have had great university courses in economics, and business. Professional seminars in the field of business, and international money and tax saving. 30 Years commercial Real Estate Broker handling business properties, and counseling to solve business problems in numerous states from my office in Colorado, with clients I handled all their investments from as far away as Iran (when under the Shaw), Malasia, etc.
Lets look at the facts.

25% of job increase June 2011 to June 2012, agriculture jobs and not high paid jobs.
Manufacturing jobs which are the big important category down .4% not up in California and up for the nation by 1.9%. Places like Montana, good jobs are plentiful and importing workers. Services down .7%. Leisure and Hospitality covering things like motels, restaurants, etc. up 3.1%. Professional and Business Services up 3.1% which is providing services to businesses, such as accounting and Providing Temporary Workers for businesses (not full time jobs). While temporary services in the nation this has declined as part time jobs became full time instead of part time not the same in California. Construction up 5%, and this is unknown if low or high paid jobs. Professional and business services up 4.7% again in this field a lot of these jobs are part time. State jobs, down 1.4% and Federal Jobs down 1.8%. Normally good solid middle class jobs. Many of these are teachers, police, etc. This is just a few job categories, but gives you a good idea of what is really happening.

The loss in manufacturing jobs, is largely caused by the 5 companies bailing out every week taking their jobs with them and the replacement jobs are not equal to those leaving.

In July 2012, approximately 700,000 jobless Californians had gone without work for at least one year, which is more than 1/3rd of jobless.

Almost half of the unemployed in California have been searching for work for more than six months.

Add the underemployed including those that have just given up hope of getting a job and the jobless number is over 30% of the working age population.

The one group not increasing in employment past year, is those with a college degree where employment has remained flat with no gain, an indicator that most job increases are in lower quality jobs, not those requiring a college degree. There have been some increases in college trained employees, but they are being offset by those leaving the state when their companies move out.

Average weekly earnings are lower today than 5 years ago, except for the top 20% of population in California. This is not true, for most of the country where the economy is bouncing back.

California had a big jump in the number of jobs last month, but employment would have to more than double this figure every month for 3 or more years to get the state back to half way normal and that is not going to happen with current trends.

The U.S. unemployment rate dropped .1% last month with 96,000 jobs, but there were 368,000 that just gave up and are not counted as unemployed so it is not a true unemployment rate.

California has serious problems, and will take a long time to recover and may not be back to its glory days for decades. If California does what I am afraid they are going to do, which is to hit those with money and corporations with big tax increases and higher business fees to solve some of their money problems, be prepared to see more than the current company per day leave the state, and don't expect any company with high paying jobs to move in to replace them.
Just a couple of days ago there was an article in the Mercury News that showed that, contrary to what everybody thinks, there are just about as many manufacturing jobs in the Bay Area as there have ever been:

Cassidy: Silicon Valley, Bay Area poised for manufacturing revival - San Jose Mercury News

However, the kind of manufacturing done is different. An example given by the article is Intuitive Surgical, the maker of the DaVinci robotic surgical system. Hospitals all over the world are ordering them, and they are built right here in Sunnyvale. The people working in that factory need good technical skills.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-08-2012, 10:43 AM
 
272 posts, read 322,423 times
Reputation: 470
There is a big shortage of local Californians with degrees in engineering and science in SFBA.
California companies can't find local people here and hire from all parts of the worlds.
Does it help with California unemployment rate?

and there is a push to remove algebra from our schools

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/29/op...pagewanted=all

Bravo, The New York Times!

and current jobs need high skills worker

http://www.technet.org/technet-calls...onomic-growth/

Last edited by tetka_grunya; 09-08-2012 at 12:02 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-08-2012, 02:41 PM
 
9,891 posts, read 11,762,441 times
Reputation: 22087
Two things one learns from those links.

1: They want to do away with teaching math in school, saying algebra is not important any longer.

2: We have a growing shortage of engineers.

Engineering is very math oriented, and needs people trained in math. As engineering is important, if we do not teach the kids math, where are the engineers going to come from?

Algebra formulation is used to program computers, (If I had not taken algebra 50 years before, I would not have been able to program computers to do in depth real estate and business analysis as I had to write my own programs to do this).

Without math, where are the computer programmers coming from?

Without math, where are the accountants, bankers, etc., coming from?

Without math, how are business executives going to be able to make long term business decisions?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-08-2012, 03:17 PM
 
9,891 posts, read 11,762,441 times
Reputation: 22087
Quote:
Just a couple of days ago there was an article in the Mercury News that showed that, contrary to what everybody thinks, there are just about as many manufacturing jobs in the Bay Area as there have ever been:

Cassidy: Silicon Valley, Bay Area poised for manufacturing revival - San Jose Mercury News
There are not as many manufacturing jobs in the Bay Area as there ever have been. One just has to look at the labor statistics to see that.

In the article above, they pointed out that a large portion of the manufacturing has been leaving the state for several years. It is being replaced, with new industries. The problem as far as job creation, as I have stated several times is the new industries do not use anywhere near the number of workers the old one's did. The people working at these new plants, are much higher tech trained, than those at the jobs that are being replaced. They are using automated computer controlled machinery to make the parts, and are not using the same type of people for the jobs as the jobs that are being lost. That is the reason these new jobs pay so well. The problem, is where are the displaced manufacturing workers going to get jobs. They are being replaced by technology.

Jobs that can use the same caliber as the displaced workers, are being moved to states and countries, where it is much cheaper to operate and taxes are lower. The new factory jobs they mention are very high tech in nature, require engineers, etc., to operate the machinery is the reason for the very high pay for factory workers. Yes new manufacturing jobs are being created, but not fast enough to replace the ones that are being lost, so there was a net loss of manufacturing jobs in California from June 2011 to Jue 2012 the latest statistics available.

California and the SV can run factories very successful and make a big profit on higher priced goods when it requires few employees, especially highly educated ones, it just cannot keep the ones that take a lot of labor with lower selling prices.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-08-2012, 03:39 PM
 
9,891 posts, read 11,762,441 times
Reputation: 22087
There is a problem on threads like this.

We have the Internet Genaration, that want everything proven by a link. If they do not see a link, nothing can be true. When they see something they don't understand the why or where of, they have one answer---"Give Me A Link".

But that is the only source they use for information.

On things to do with business, the economy, they do not read Fortune, Money, Economist, Wall Street Journal, etc. They do not ever look at T.V. business reports. They never listen to the radio business reports. Those of us that use not only the Internet but other sources for information, have a much wider outlook at what is really going on in this country.

If they think everything is on the Internet, then if they disagree with a statement or fact, I challenge them to find a link to prove it wrong. Instead if they don't understand or disagree for any reason usually not fact based, they say, "Show Me A Link". If they do a little checking, they would often find they are the one that is wrong.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-08-2012, 04:09 PM
 
18,172 posts, read 16,392,470 times
Reputation: 9328
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtrader View Post
Two things one learns from those links.

1: They want to do away with teaching math in school, saying algebra is not important any longer.

2: We have a growing shortage of engineers.

Engineering is very math oriented, and needs people trained in math. As engineering is important, if we do not teach the kids math, where are the engineers going to come from?

Algebra formulation is used to program computers, (If I had not taken algebra 50 years before, I would not have been able to program computers to do in depth real estate and business analysis as I had to write my own programs to do this).

Without math, where are the computer programmers coming from?

Without math, where are the accountants, bankers, etc., coming from?

Without math, how are business executives going to be able to make long term business decisions?
Yep, schooling is letting the kids and the State, not to mention the Country, down.

Too many "Social" programs and not enough actual education being provided.

I think the last I read was that my 8th grade education, in CA, was equal or better than a High School one now.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-08-2012, 04:36 PM
 
Location: Denver Colorado
2,561 posts, read 5,812,468 times
Reputation: 2246
Another invisble fist pump..yeay team..I know just call me Debbie Downer...frankly just don't see it; where is this taking place?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-08-2012, 08:45 PM
 
5,980 posts, read 13,118,780 times
Reputation: 4920
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtrader View Post
There is a problem on threads like this.

We have the Internet Genaration, that want everything proven by a link. If they do not see a link, nothing can be true. When they see something they don't understand the why or where of, they have one answer---"Give Me A Link".

But that is the only source they use for information.

On things to do with business, the economy, they do not read Fortune, Money, Economist, Wall Street Journal, etc. They do not ever look at T.V. business reports. They never listen to the radio business reports. Those of us that use not only the Internet but other sources for information, have a much wider outlook at what is really going on in this country.

If they think everything is on the Internet, then if they disagree with a statement or fact, I challenge them to find a link to prove it wrong. Instead if they don't understand or disagree for any reason usually not fact based, they say, "Show Me A Link". If they do a little checking, they would often find they are the one that is wrong.
But you gave us links to articles. All of those journals and magazines have websites where you can get back issues online. And before the internet, someone could still ask for something to read on paper, or on TV, etc. to back up your claims.

If you can't provide a link, then tell us what issue of which magazines, or whatever. One still, as always must cite a source. Just telling people to go read these books or journals is condescending and is backing out of a debate.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > California

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:12 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top