Prop 30 poll (teachers, pension, good)

[Youthanasia]

Originally Posted by Captain Obvious

On top of the salary there are guaranteed health benefits that are already paid for.

These are renegotiated every MOU cycle, now more so than ever.

These insurance plans are also significantly better than those that are available in the public sector.

False, they are the same plans. There is no magic secret health plan.

Additionally these benefits continue after the employee has retired, which definitely doesn't happen in the private sector.

yeah, medicare doesn't exist.

When you factor in the retirement package, and health care benefits public employees get paid more than private ones. You seem to be arguing that people just look at a salary when deciding whether to take a job, but I don't think that is the only consideration.

It's the biggest deciding factor, by far. BTW there has been numerous studies done which point to private sector employees making more and some that state it's the same, and I'm sure you can find some that suggest otherwise.

On average, California’s public‐sector workers are more highly educated than private‐sector workers; 55% of full‐time California’s public‐sector workers hold at least a four‐year college degree compared with 35% of full‐time private‐sector workers. On average, California state and local governments pay college‐educated workers less than private employers. • California’s public employees receive a higher portion of their compensation in the form of employer‐provided benefits, and the mix of benefits is different. Public employers underwrite 35.7% of employee compensation in benefits, whereas private employers devote 30%.
• Health insurance accounts for 7.7% of private‐sector compensation but 11.8% of state and local government employee costs. Retirement benefits also account for a substantially greater share of public employee compensation (8.2%) compared with the private sector (3.6%). On the other hand, public employees receive considerably less supplemental pay and vacation time, and public employers contribute significantly less to legally mandated benefits.
• When total compensation—both the cost of employer‐provided benefits and direct pay—is taken into account, state and local public sector workers in California are similarly compensated to workers in the private sector.

California public

[steelstress]

Originally Posted by Youthanasia

Sure they do, stop voting for tax increases... as in your scenario the employee will go to another employer that does as will government employees, you get what you pay for.

You really need to get your head out. Not voting for tax increases doesn't get you out of paying taxes.

How old are you anyway?

[Youthanasia]

Originally Posted by steelstress

You really need to get your head out. Not voting for tax increases doesn't get you out of paying taxes.

How old are you anyway?

It gets you out of paying higher taxes, get your head out.

[Captain Obvious]

Originally Posted by Youthanasia

These are renegotiated every MOU cycle, now more so than ever.

False, they are the same plans. There is no magic secret health plan.

yeah, medicare doesn't exist.

It's the biggest deciding factor, by far. BTW there has been numerous studies done which point to private sector employees making more and some that state it's the same, and I'm sure you can find some that suggest otherwise.


California public

Care to guess who the chairman of the economic policy institute is?

Seriously, you need to try a little harder.

I thought only the right wing people had shill think tanks with innocuous sounding names.

http://www.epi.org/about/board/

[Youthanasia]

Originally Posted by Captain Obvious

Care to guess who the chairman of the economic policy institute is?

Seriously, you need to try a little harder.

I thought only the right wing people had shill think tanks with innocuous sounding names.

You can find data to say anything you want about anything you want, period.

[jimhcom]

Gorvernor Moonbeam has a massive headache this morning.
He has spent 6 billion dollars on pensions and other things that he did not have, and the taxpayer has declined to pick up the tab.

[TrueTimbers]

Originally Posted by jimhcom

Gorvernor Moonbeam has a massive headache this morning.
He has spent 6 billion dollars on pensions and other things that he did not have, and the taxpayer has declined to pick up the tab.

?
Prop 30 passed.. from what I read... Sure you are not the "moonbeam"..

[ambient]

This is not surprising. This is California, and in California, we never learn. Now we have written a nice big check for Sacramento politicians to spend on anything they want, and you have to be oh so naive to believe that it is "temporary." They'll continue to horrendously mismanage the money and the funding that does go into the schools (offset by the money that they'll take from classrooms to fund union liabilities, ridiculous bullet trains, other corrupt pet projects, etc.) will be absorbed by the same structurally inept bureaucracy and not produce the results expected (shockingly!).

And then next time around, after they've squandered this check, rather than make some serious structural reforms and cuts, they'll shuffle around money between general and special funds once more, bake a nice big increase into the budget with trigger cuts to schools, and scream the familiar line: "Your wallet or your kids! Don't you want what's best for the kids??"

Sacramento has been obscenely inept with our money for decades. Why would they even try to be fiscally responsible when we make it so easy for them?

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by ambient

Sacramento has been obscenely inept with our money for decades. Why would they even try to be fiscally responsible when we make it so easy for them?

If we didn't still have five of our, combined, seven children living in California, four of them in Sacramento, as well as seven grandchildren and a great grandchild, I'd almost be amused.

[1200RT]

Okay .... "we" voted. Now lets see the return on this "investment".

#1 in per-pupil spending, here we come.