Debunking right wing lies: The rich don't move because of taxes. (Sacramento: real estate, attorney)

[Mathguy]

Originally Posted by Think4Yourself

The study shows that any such occurrences are so rare as to be statically negligible and there for not worthy of consideration. The right wing claims that it is some how a dominate factor in people's decision making is clearly false and not supported by any evidence.

That's a fact not an opinion.

The study only looked at people with annual incomes in excess of $1million as the definition of rich.

If you want to shrug off even a minor bleed of 2% for example, then go for it....but that's still an awful lot of money.

Regardless, CA's budget problems aren't income related. All one has to do is take a peek at the budget changes over the last 30 years and see the surge is social program spending is what is burying you.

You can complain all you want about rightwing accusations, whether they are right or not should be moot, it doesn't mean the state doesn't still have collossal budget problems.

[Mathguy]

Originally Posted by .highnlite

Not an accurate statement, by far.

It is important to remember, although few seem to take the time to discover for themselves, that the difference in total tax burden between California the state with the lowest total tax burden, Alaska, is 3.6%.

The following is an average, all things being equal, if you want to quibble, quibble with whom I am quoting, and why am I not sourcing my quote? Doing your research for you, does not make you better informed. On an income of $100,000, one can expect to pay $10,600 total tax burden in California. In the lowest total tax burden state, Alaska you will pay $7,000.

That difference, $3,600. That is about 80 cartons of cigarettes. Or 3 cups of Starbucks coffee per year. Or having two kids in hockey per season. Etc.

Remember folks, that is the lowest taxed state compared to California, your preferred eastern hell hole will have less difference.

Yes, the difference for state and local tax is around $3600.

Then you need to add a grand or so for sales tax and of course a couple hundred bucks for having one of the highest gas taxes of any state....

I absolutely agree with you that a few thousand in taxes is not going to be the deal breaker though. Now if you start adding in other costs like rent\mortgage rates and so forth then you have to factor that into your own personal decision.

Obviously, California has a lot going for it or it wouldn't be so populous and so forth. However, being a lower cost place to live isn't one of them but hey, every state has it's pros and cons.

[sav858]

Originally Posted by Mathguy

P.S. CA is becoming less and less socially liberal or did you miss the gay marriage getting shot down? The demographics in CA are surging towards latino and catholic. Fiscal liberal, social conservative.....the future of California.

That isn't true at all. Prop 8 passed by just 52%. Prop 22 in 2000, which defined the only recognizable marriage as one between a man and woman, passed by 61%. CA is becoming more acceptable of gay marriage not the other way around.

Also there were several Bay Area counties that passed prop 22 inlcuding San Mateo and Contra Costa. In 2008 only Solano County passed prop 8, which SM and CC voted against it despite supporting prop 22 eight years earlier.

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by Think4Yourself

Most of why those people leave has nothing to do with taxes but with the high cost of land itself because California is such a desirable place to live. That and the fact that foreign competition in China can be paid $0.52 per hour so every penny counts (that's the actual average industrial wage in China). You know it, I know it. Fiddling with tax rates won't change that problem.

Can't speak for the well off... always worked since age 12 and started paying into Social Security at that time...

Maybe the rich don't care... I know I do and have been actively looking to relocate...

My modest 1957 1700 square foot home with original Formica counters and lino floors is taxed $9,000 annual property tax... simply moving outside the city, 5 minutes away, in a good area, the exact same value property is $6,000... over 10 years this is at least $30,000 in savings... money I could put towards my retirement.

I know a very well to do retired Corporate CFO that sold everything in California... has a PO box in Oregon and splits his time between his yacht in Mexico and his $300k motor-home in Oregon...

According to him it was a no brainer based simply on taxes...

[Snort]

Now being a grown-up (sort of), I put so little faith in any supposed research-based 'documentation'. So much of those "well-respected" studies are nothing but phony data to support a desired outcome.
After being in a field glutted with "research", I come away pretty frickin' jaded about professional ethics and behavior.

[tetka_grunya]

here is a result of another study

In Maryland, Higher Taxes Chase Out Rich: Study - U.S. Business News - CNBC

from CNBC

[oldtrader]

Here is an interesting study, on who is getting the new jobs in the recovery.

Two-thirds of jobs go to immigrants during Obama's four years - Washington Times

The question in this thread, is do the rich move because of high taxes. Here is what the Wall Street Journal says.

Arthur Laffer and Stephen Moore: A 50-State Tax Lesson for the President - WSJ.com


The rich are even leaving the U.S. to avoid the high taxes.

Wealthy Americans Jumping Obama

http://tinyurl.com/az7g3nw

Americans renouncing US citizenship to avoid stiff tax bills - NYPOST.com

If the rich leave, who gets stuck with the bills.

Millionaire taxes hurt the masses, from Newark to Paris - The Term Sheet: Fortune's deals blog Term Sheet

[Mathguy]

Originally Posted by sav858

That isn't true at all. Prop 8 passed by just 52%. Prop 22 in 2000, which defined the only recognizable marriage as one between a man and woman, passed by 61%. CA is becoming more acceptable of gay marriage not the other way around.

Also there were several Bay Area counties that passed prop 22 inlcuding San Mateo and Contra Costa. In 2008 only Solano County passed prop 8, which SM and CC voted against it despite supporting prop 22 eight years earlier.

Fair enough, I just personally felt that it was starting to reverse but after reading your comments and doing a little more digging I think I was wrong about this.

Thanks for the information!

[Captain Obvious]

While I don't dispute the study in terms of high net worth individuals moving due to taxes (New Jersey provides a good example of this not happening), are there indications that corporations don't move from high tax states?

That would be the bigger concern for me than if Steven Spielberg decides to move to Washington state after November.

[.highnlite]

Originally Posted by Mathguy

Yes, the difference for state and local tax is around $3600.

Then you need to add a grand or so for sales tax and of course a couple hundred bucks for having one of the highest gas taxes of any state....

I absolutely agree with you that a few thousand in taxes is not going to be the deal breaker though. Now if you start adding in other costs like rent\mortgage rates and so forth then you have to factor that into your own personal decision.

Obviously, California has a lot going for it or it wouldn't be so populous and so forth. However, being a lower cost place to live isn't one of them but hey, every state has it's pros and cons.

Do we understand the concept of Total Tax Burden?