The Bottom Line on Prop 30. (Los Angeles: credit, layoffs, public school)

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Think4Yourself

It looks like 30 passed, that Californians still care about their children's education, and the wing nuts will no doubt cry but never wonder why they always lose. That would require hard self reflection and that's just not something the wing nuts like to do.

The nuts who lack the ability to think for themselves and whose narrow view of the world is severely limited by partisan, political ideology voted it in. Little, if any, will go directly to schools because it was never designed to do so. The same hands will be out again in two to four years with the same whining and crying that it's for the children. In the end, all this has done is give the legislature billions of dollars more to waste.

[TrueTimbers]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

The nuts who lack the ability to think for themselves and whose narrow view of the world is severely limited by partisan, political ideology voted it in. Little, if any, will go directly to schools because it was never designed to do so. The same hands will be out again in two to four years with the same whining and crying that it's for the children. In the end, all this has done is give the legislature billions of dollars more to waste.

Time to go back and revamp your conservative viewpoint... What is best for old white males is not the direction the country decided to go...

Sure lots of problems in prop 30, no I do not think enough goes to student education... But you want to protect pensions yes? (At least yours??)

IMO the young American voters have a surprise in store for you soon... I bet they will default on all state employee pensions... Seriously the boomers are dragging down the young...

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by TrueTimbers

Time to go back and revamp your conservative viewpoint... What is best for old white males is not the direction the country decided to go...

Sure lots of problems in prop 30, no I do not think enough goes to student education... But you want to protect pensions yes? (At least yours??)

IMO the young American voters have a surprise in store for you soon... I bet they will default on all state employee pensions... Seriously the boomers are dragging down the young...

Hate to disappoint you but I don't have a "conservative viewpoint." What I do have is an educated and experienced viewpoint after having spent the better part of 20 years working in the political and legislative environment of California. I'll put that up against partisan ideology any day.

As to the matter of pensions, of course I would like to see the state fulfill its promise to me and others who are already retired. That should be a moral imperative but if the state decides to renege on its contractual obligation, so be it. If nothing else, that would be proof positive that it cannot be trusted with anything and that includes any more of your money and the rest of the taxpayer's.

So in the end, we'll see what happens. Meanwhile, enjoy paying more while probably getting less and I'm sure you'll have ample opportunity to vote for further increases in taxation in the very near future. Enjoy!

[davidt1]

Curmudgeon,

It's hard to know who we talk to online. The other poster could be a student going to school while receiving welfare or financial aid, or a parent with 6 kids in public schools, or a school employee. These are folks who think they gain if prop 30 passes.

Commonsense and reason won't work here.

[steelstress]

Originally Posted by Think4Yourself

It looks like 30 passed, that Californians still care about their children's education, and the wing nuts will no doubt cry but never wonder why they always lose. That would require hard self reflection and that's just not something the wing nuts like to do.

Well, duh, how do you think they were decieved into passing this? They'll have their hands out again next election. When will you learn?

[TrueTimbers]

Originally Posted by davidt1

Curmudgeon,

It's hard to know who we talk to online. The other poster could be a student going to school while receiving welfare or financial aid, or a parent with 6 kids in public schools, or a school employee. These are folks who think they gain if prop 30 passes.

Commonsense and reason won't work here.

Don't get it do you? You sound very selfish with your post! WOW

For the record, I am late 40's tail end of the baby boom gen.. Self employed farmer with a wife working taking care of the elderly, and two kids in public school.. We are rural people... We should fit the Republican demographic but we do not...

We simply have the belief that people should come together and support one another when needed... If that means making a sacrifice via taxes, then so be it..

We are in this together, it is not always about my bottom line or bank account...

You have a few years to rethink your position... Possibly a slightly less selfish one is in order..

[davidt1]

I just notice that your location is Wisconsin Northwoods. I take that you don't live in CA. You won't be paying the increased sale and income taxes Californians will be subjected to under prop 30. How are you "in this" together? You have two kids in public school. Are they in public school in CA? If that's the case, I guess you are "in this" to see prop 30 passed.

And please don't play that "if you are not for this, then you are a selfish person" nonsense.

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by mysticaltyger

And here's another showing that small class sizes (which are more expensive) don't necessarily mean kids learn more:

Conventional wisdom says the smaller the classes, the better the education, because teachers can pay more attention to each child. But while smaller classes are popular, decades of research has found that the relationship between class size and student outcomes is murky.


But I'm sure the true believers will say this is just more right wing propaganda.

Class sizes are getting bigger, but does it really matter? - USATODAY.com

When I was in public school, an average class was 30 students, but 31 or 32 was not uncommon, (and study halls could be 10x that size). Somehow this terrible overcrowding and "lack of individual attention" did little to harm us. In fact, my teachers all knew each student as an individual, and taught each student according to their needs.

And then I went to college and found myself in classes of 100 to 300 students. Somehow we all managed to learn (and at an accelerated pace, compared to our prior years), despite this overwhelming handicap.

I suspect this has a great deal to do with the fact that at both levels, we were disciplined students -- fannies in the seats, eyes forward, and mouths shut unless we had something to say about the subject being taught ... and more so, that the biggest goad toward good performance was PEER PRESSURE. If you were used to getting A's, it was embarrassing to be seen with a B!!

[spotlesseden]

In Japan and S.Korean, many teachers make over 80k+ a year, but the class room is alot bigger. Students have to clean their own class room and school. gov't spent less money and teachers make more money. Students have better grades.

http://www.ncee.org/programs-affilia...cipal-quality/

[1200RT]

Originally Posted by spotlesseden

In Japan and S.Korean, alot of teachers make over 100k a year, but the class room is alot bigger. Students have to clean their own class room and school. gov't spent less money and teachers make more money. Students have better grades.

Don't you pay for both private and public secondary school in Japan?