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Old 11-08-2012, 05:41 AM
 
Location: Sherman Oaks, CA
6,588 posts, read 17,544,859 times
Reputation: 9462

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Any kind of meaningful reform on spending and pensions would take a long time to shape and put into practice. Our kids can't wait for that to happen - unless, of course, you don't mind a bunch of uneducated idiots being released into the work force.

However, now that we've plugged the budget hole, at least for now, reforms definitely should be addressed. The state government doesn't have a blank check, and if they mismanage these funds, you can bet there will be another proposition on the ballot getting rid of Prop. 30.

Maybe we should look at the way other states manage their budgets. I know our population is unique, but there must be a way to address the challenges without constantly throwing more money into the mix.
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Old 11-08-2012, 06:46 AM
 
Location: Quimper Peninsula
1,981 posts, read 3,150,301 times
Reputation: 1771
Quote:
Originally Posted by TVC15 View Post
I think the fairest thing surrounding Prop 30 would have been to only allow those who make 250K or more to vote on this Prop. The people who will feel the most impact should be the ones to have the sole right to vote on it. Otherwise it should have been a Prop that included all of us who work no matter what we earn. Then I would bet money on it that it would have not passed.


Wow, I love it! Put you radicals under pressure from loosing and your true colors begin to show...
Sure glad you are in a shrinking minority of people... If you had your way we would be back in the Dark Ages in a blink of an eye...

So it is not "fair" that people who have taken more pay more? Just how do you think people with wealth got wealthy? By taking societies resources and turning a profit from the bottom 80%.

Everything that allows one to fulfill the "American Dream" is based on a functioning society...

Play out your way and we will be back in the dark ages, with a small ruling class living behind walls, and the rest begging for scraps.... (oops thats what we already have the last 20 years in America)

Not a sustainable model.... Hello ???

You would do well in a dictatorship, where the ruling class lives high on the hog, while they milk the population for everything...

MOD CUT

Last edited by NewToCA; 11-08-2012 at 07:55 AM.. Reason: getting a bit carried away there
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Old 11-08-2012, 06:56 AM
 
Location: So Cal
10,028 posts, read 9,500,216 times
Reputation: 10449
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdJS View Post
I know where my taxes are spent -- at least some of them. I was inside a sixth grade classroom just a few weeks ago. So I saw what my taxes were paying for with my own eyes.
This prop has no guarantee the funds will make it to the classroom.
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Old 11-08-2012, 07:40 AM
 
Location: Central Texas
13,714 posts, read 31,159,468 times
Reputation: 9270
Quote:
Originally Posted by SandyCo View Post
Any kind of meaningful reform on spending and pensions would take a long time to shape and put into practice. Our kids can't wait for that to happen - unless, of course, you don't mind a bunch of uneducated idiots being released into the work force.

However, now that we've plugged the budget hole, at least for now, reforms definitely should be addressed. The state government doesn't have a blank check, and if they mismanage these funds, you can bet there will be another proposition on the ballot getting rid of Prop. 30.

Maybe we should look at the way other states manage their budgets. I know our population is unique, but there must be a way to address the challenges without constantly throwing more money into the mix.
CA won't reform education in any meaningful way. The CTA stands in the way, with full support of the Dems running the legislature. They will fight any move to fire bad teachers, replace with better ones, move away from state funding to local funding, and of course they will never get rid of the 40% rule.

Do you really believe CA is capable of education reform?

Oh - and what makes CA's population unique?
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Old 11-08-2012, 07:51 AM
 
6,497 posts, read 11,810,585 times
Reputation: 11124
Quote:
Originally Posted by TVC15 View Post
Right your pitiful little .25 increase. Gee that is such a huge contribution.

It would have been a bigger contribution if all of us had the income tax increase vs. the paltry .25 cents.

Why don't you give your own hard earned money to support your causes for education? Or better yet force the CA government to stop carelessly mismanaging our tax dollars. Stop foolish spending. Enforce Pension Reform etc. So they would not have to raise taxes. We already pay enough...it's just horribly mismanaged.

But no lets just single out the 250K or more people instead
It's not .25 cents. It's .025%.
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:14 AM
 
17,400 posts, read 11,967,439 times
Reputation: 16152
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueTimbers View Post


Wow, I love it! Put you radicals under pressure from loosing and your true colors begin to show...
Sure glad you are in a shrinking minority of people... If you had your way we would be back in the Dark Ages in a blink of an eye...

So it is not "fair" that people who have taken more pay more? Just how do you think people with wealth got wealthy? By taking societies resources and turning a profit from the bottom 80%.

Everything that allows one to fulfill the "American Dream" is based on a functioning society...

Play out your way and we will be back in the dark ages, with a small ruling class living behind walls, and the rest begging for scraps.... (oops thats what we already have the last 20 years in America)

Not a sustainable model.... Hello ???

You would do well in a dictatorship, where the ruling class lives high on the hog, while they milk the population for everything...

MOD CUT
Beautifully illustrating the glaring difference between left and right.

Libs think successful people "take". That there are only winners and losers, and if you win, you must have stolen from the loser.

Conservatives think successful people "earn". Through hard work, sacrifice and smart decisions. That when they win, everyone wins.

You speak of a sustainable model, but have what about when those "rich" folks (and we all know $250k isn't close to rich in CA) are either tapped out or gone, what have you got. Greece, that's what.
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:16 AM
 
17,400 posts, read 11,967,439 times
Reputation: 16152
Quote:
Originally Posted by VLWH View Post
This prop has no guarantee the funds will make it to the classroom.
But we can guarantee that it will make its way into the pockets of the unions.
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Old 11-08-2012, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Pacific Beach/San Diego
4,750 posts, read 3,564,736 times
Reputation: 4614
Quote:
Originally Posted by TVC15 View Post
Right your pitiful little .25 increase. Gee that is such a huge contribution.

It would have been a bigger contribution if all of us had the income tax increase vs. the paltry .25 cents.

Why don't you give your own hard earned money to support your causes for education? Or better yet force the CA government to stop carelessly mismanaging our tax dollars. Stop foolish spending. Enforce Pension Reform etc. So they would not have to raise taxes. We already pay enough...it's just horribly mismanaged.

But no lets just single out the 250K or more people instead
Love how many of you bemoan the rise in sales tax as being more taken from you . . . and then when somebody else says that it is being taken from them too, it suddenly means nothing.

Who says that I don't fight for pension reform? I am for that and would vote for that reform if it came up in a proposition. I don't have a pension. I buy my own health care and pay into my own retirement. I am not a union member.

If I could think of a way that the selfish people like yourself wouldn't benefit from having a more educated populace around you, I could logically exempt you from paying money into Prop 30. If you never used public monies for public schools, if you never employed people who came through public school systems or public universities, if you never benefited from the inventions and findings that came from public funded institutions, then you really weren't benefited by them, and you should be exempt from paying money to them, even if that action was decided by a democratic process.

I've supported taxes when those taxes have affected me; I haven't dodged taxes; I have no off-shore tax havens where I squirrel away money that I don't want to pay, unlike many business owners (including the Mitt Romneys of the world). The state and country get my money, and I appreciate the services that I get for those taxes as well, including a better educated citizenry. Point to the countries that do better than us in worldwide education; I'm betting most of them have higher tax rates than we do.
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Old 11-08-2012, 02:10 PM
 
253 posts, read 349,041 times
Reputation: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueTimbers View Post


Wow, I love it! Put you radicals under pressure from loosing and your true colors begin to show...
Sure glad you are in a shrinking minority of people... If you had your way we would be back in the Dark Ages in a blink of an eye...

So it is not "fair" that people who have taken more pay more? Just how do you think people with wealth got wealthy? By taking societies resources and turning a profit from the bottom 80%.

Everything that allows one to fulfill the "American Dream" is based on a functioning society...

Play out your way and we will be back in the dark ages, with a small ruling class living behind walls, and the rest begging for scraps.... (oops thats what we already have the last 20 years in America)

Not a sustainable model.... Hello ???

You would do well in a dictatorship, where the ruling class lives high on the hog, while they milk the population for everything...

MOD CUT



Do you think that increasing the graduated rate of taxation starting at 250K (a number which more and more people will make as Inflation kick in) is a way to foster the upper middle class?

I am going to assume that you are desperately trying to meld two groups... the manufacturing working class of the last half century and the small business owner/professional class. The previous has dwindled because of international competition we are, nationally, unwilling to compete with (through enforcement of badly needed tariffs). The latter is the group which is leaving California...
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Old 11-08-2012, 02:25 PM
 
Location: So Ca
26,717 posts, read 26,776,017 times
Reputation: 24780
Quote:
Originally Posted by TristramShandy View Post
Who says that I don't fight for pension reform? I am for that and would vote for that reform if it came up in a proposition. I don't have a pension. I buy my own health care and pay into my own retirement. I am not a union member.

I've supported taxes when those taxes have affected me; I haven't dodged taxes; I have no off-shore tax havens where I squirrel away money that I don't want to pay, unlike many business owners (including the Mitt Romneys of the world). The state and country get my money, and I appreciate the services that I get for those taxes as well, including a better educated citizenry.
I couldn't rep you; great post.
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