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Old 11-21-2012, 11:52 AM
 
28,114 posts, read 63,642,682 times
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Noticed in today's paper the courts again upheld a challenge to Prop 13... specifically, the validity of the 2/3 requirement...

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/C...13-4055494.php
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Old 11-21-2012, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,129 posts, read 31,238,974 times
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So how come my state doesn't have prop. 13 and my property taxes have remained reasonable? When property values rise, the county generally lowers the tax rate to maintain revenue at a reasonable growth rate year to year. I don't really understand this "predictability" issue.
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Old 11-21-2012, 02:12 PM
 
11,715 posts, read 40,438,984 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVA1990 View Post
So how come my state doesn't have prop. 13 and my property taxes have remained reasonable? When property values rise, the county generally lowers the tax rate to maintain revenue at a reasonable growth rate year to year. I don't really understand this "predictability" issue.
Did you own real estate in California in the 70's? My understanding was that prop13 was a reaction to property taxes going through the roof as house values increased. Other than property tax, what else do people have to pay real money every year on an unrealized gain?
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Old 11-21-2012, 02:43 PM
 
28,114 posts, read 63,642,682 times
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Originally Posted by CAVA1990 View Post
So how come my state doesn't have prop. 13 and my property taxes have remained reasonable? When property values rise, the county generally lowers the tax rate to maintain revenue at a reasonable growth rate year to year. I don't really understand this "predictability" issue.
That's easy... look no further to the 70's... a time of gas lines, business decline and double digit property tax increases.

Never seen my father so shaken as the time he open the tax bill and saw how much it had jumped from the year before... he was not mad... he was just up against the wall and kept saying this can't be right... the same thing our neighbors were saying...

You also need to know that back in the 70's several county tax assessors went to jail for fraud and sweetheart deals to those of power and influence and a couple committed suicide.

Prop 13 was a breath of fresh air... it was not volumes of tax code and it was not dependant on some one's opinion of value.

Prop 13 was simple... a few short paragraphs of law that came about at the right time and enjoyed unprecedented grass roots support.

Washington State had a similar measure as do 17 other states to varying degrees.

In Washington, it was called I-747 and was law for a few years till it was tossed out by a Judge... my friends saw an 80% assessment increase over what they had paid for the property less than 2 years before...

People forget that Prop 13 has built in mechanisms for inflation and voter overrides and contrary to popular belief... Prop 13 limits do not apply to school construction and maintenance.
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:00 PM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,129 posts, read 31,238,974 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
That's easy... look no further to the 70's... a time of gas lines, business decline and double digit property tax increases.

Never seen my father so shaken as the time he open the tax bill and saw how much it had jumped from the year before... he was not mad... he was just up against the wall and kept saying this can't be right... the same thing our neighbors were saying...

You also need to know that back in the 70's several county tax assessors went to jail for fraud and sweetheart deals to those of power and influence and a couple committed suicide..
Why didn't the local homeowners just demand a lower tax rate against the assessed values? That's what we do here when home prices escalate beyond the normal inflation rate. If they don't we vote 'em out. Weren't property tax rates set by the county supervisors? As I recall the Republicans controlled our OC board back then.
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:14 PM
 
28,114 posts, read 63,642,682 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVA1990 View Post
Why didn't the local homeowners just demand a lower tax rate against the assessed values? That's what we do here when home prices escalate beyond the normal inflation rate. If they don't we vote 'em out. Weren't property tax rates set by the county supervisors? As I recall the Republicans controlled our OC board back then.
Voters not only demanded lower tax rates... they voted for them and won.

Statewide tax rate went to 1%

The thousands of other tax entities had to ask for voter approvals.

I posted the other day... 27 entities are on my single family residential tax bill...

The voters approved these... so many taxing authorities have successfully made the case and obtained voter approval.

Prop 13 would never have become law without voters and lots of them...

Jerry Brown was Governor then... he at the last minute floated a competing measure that failed miserable.

I've said many times... all that needed to happen was to index the Home Owner Exemption for inflation and there never would have been a Prop 13... business and non owner property would not have been affected.

The $7,500 exemption was very meaningful when a modest home cost $12 to 15k... today, the exemption translates for most into a $95 to $125 savings each year.

Politicians failed to act...so the people did through the ballot box... democracy in action.
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:27 PM
 
Location: Paranoid State
13,044 posts, read 13,858,996 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post
You know this is easily resolved.

simply set up a system where everyone pays the same property tax. Then pay the taxpayer the amount of money needed to bring the taxpayer to their prop 13 level.

...
LVOC, can you walk me through it? I'm lost (maybe not enough coffee).

Thanks
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Old 11-21-2012, 10:31 PM
 
12,973 posts, read 15,793,565 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
LVOC, can you walk me through it? I'm lost (maybe not enough coffee).

Thanks
I was being facetious.

The point however is how absurd such a thing would be. It is a pet ploy of mine. Don't let people not pay things. Collect and then give it back to them.

The reasoning is obvious. The poor old lady sitting in a 1.2 million house in Santa Monica seems quite harmless with her $1300 tax bill. But bill her the full $15,000 and then give her back a check for $13,700 and I suspect the population will see it differently...particularly when all those checks add up to 3 or 4 billion dollars.

The NV system makes a lot more sense. The tax due passes with the house and does not reset. And we don't give eternal breaks to commercial properties.
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Old 11-21-2012, 11:08 PM
 
28,114 posts, read 63,642,682 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post
I was being facetious.

The point however is how absurd such a thing would be. It is a pet ploy of mine. Don't let people not pay things. Collect and then give it back to them.

The reasoning is obvious. The poor old lady sitting in a 1.2 million house in Santa Monica seems quite harmless with her $1300 tax bill. But bill her the full $15,000 and then give her back a check for $13,700 and I suspect the population will see it differently...particularly when all those checks add up to 3 or 4 billion dollars.

The NV system makes a lot more sense. The tax due passes with the house and does not reset. And we don't give eternal breaks to commercial properties.
You nailed it... government in Nevada never pushed taxpayers as far as California.

Even today, Nevadans enjoy no State Income Tax plus revenues from gaming... for decades the only State to have this bounty... even prostitution in contributes to the tax base.

I really don't see why a tax based on acquisition is so hard for people to understand?

Virtually everything else in California is taxed on the price paid... some, like vehicles actually decline each year even if the vehicle appreciates...

I guess some will not be happy till California tops the charts in all categories nationwide... including Property Tax.

It's not like Property Tax is the only revenue source... Income and Sales plus all the little taxes like the tax on cell phones, utilities, cigarettes, fuel, booze... etc.
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Old 11-22-2012, 05:59 AM
 
Location: So Ca
26,717 posts, read 26,776,017 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
That's easy... look no further to the 70's... a time of gas lines, business decline and double digit property tax increases. Never seen my father so shaken as the time he open the tax bill and saw how much it had jumped from the year before...he was up against the wall and kept saying this can't be right... the same thing our neighbors were saying...
I also remember my dad being shocked at the bill. A couple of older neighbors sold their homes and moved out of state, thinking there would be no relief from escalating property taxes. It WAS frightening for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
Politicians failed to act...so the people did through the ballot box... democracy in action.
Absolutely.
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