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ExpatCA, your views are somewhat understandable because you lived in Southern California, which exemplifies everything that everybody thinks is wrong with California. I was born there and used to live there myself, but I won't be back. Much of the quality of life that once was so wonderful in the L.A. region has been spoiled through overdevelopment and overpopulation. Southern California became a victim of its own popularity.
However I do take issue with your statement that California is ruled by a "failed ideology." Once again, this is your opinion because you don't happen to like the way the state is run for whatever reason. When I hear criticism of the state that sounds like Fox News talking points, I tend to assume that the person making those statements subscribes to a conservative ideology and therefore must be a Republican, which I shouldn't have done, and I apologize.
Regardless of how you vote, you certainly have a lot of company among the California bashers who think we're circling the drain. But California is still here and we're not going anywhere anytime soon. That's my opinion. And the issues that we are dealing with -- budget, taxes, education, environment -- are hardly unique to California. It's just that, being larger and more populous than some European countries, we're a pretty big target, and even people who don't live here any more and have nothing to gain or lose by seeing us fail can't resist taking potshots.
Last edited by Bayarea4; 11-13-2012 at 06:21 PM..
Reason: Clarity.
ExpatCA, your views are somewhat understandable because you lived in Southern California, which exemplifies everything that everybody thinks is wrong with California. I was born there and used to live there myself, but I won't be back. Much of the quality of life that once was so wonderful in the L.A. region has been spoiled through overdevelopment and overpopulation. Southern California became a victim of its own popularity.
However I do take issue with your statement that California is ruled by a "failed ideology." Once again, this is your opinion because you don't happen to like the way the state is run for whatever reason. When I hear criticism of the state that sounds like Fox News talking points, I tend to assume that the person making those statements subscribes to a conservative ideology and therefore must be a Republican, which I shouldn't have done, and I apologize.
Regardless of how you vote, you certainly have a lot of company among the California bashers who think we're circling the drain. But California is still here and we're not going anywhere anytime soon. And the issues that we are dealing with -- budget, taxes, education, environment -- are hardly unique to California. It's just that, being larger and more populous than some European countries, we're a pretty big target, and even people who don't live here any more and have nothing to gain or lose by seeing us fail can't resist taking potshots.
Hi,
You are correct in many points and thank you for the apology.
However ask yourself WHY CA has so many problems when it has so much going for it? It isn't the land, the resources, the climate, the ... any good thing. It is HOW it is run by the politicians who are elected again and again by the ... people.
I can for example, ask why my 8th grade education in OC is now equal to a 12th grade education and why many colleges have remedial English classes that are not simply full of ESL students, but many born and raised in CA? What happened? It isn't just population density, it is a fundamental change in the schools themselves and that is made by ... politicians and their appointees influenced by ... an ideology.
I don't bash California, I do speak about those who have made the mess it is in. Are there other places in worse of a mess, yes, but so what? That does not make CA any better. What has to change to make it better?
You are correct in many points and thank you for the apology.
However ask yourself WHY CA has so many problems when it has so much going for it? It isn't the land, the resources, the climate, the ... any good thing. It is HOW it is run by the politicians who are elected again and again by the ... people.
I can for example, ask why my 8th grade education in OC is now equal to a 12th grade education and why many colleges have remedial English classes that are not simply full of ESL students, but many born and raised in CA? What happened? It isn't just population density, it is a fundamental change in the schools themselves and that is made by ... politicians and their appointees influenced by ... an ideology.
I don't bash California, I do speak about those who have made the mess it is in. Are there other places in worse of a mess, yes, but so what? That does not make CA any better. What has to change to make it better?
Good points. I went to school in California in the 1950s and 60s, and I know what you mean about education. It's really gone downhill, although that is true in other states as well. The answer is rather complicated and off-topic for this discussion, but IMO it has to do with the well-intentioned but misguided attempts to make everyone equal and the subsequent lowering of standards.
California is, and has always been, a magnet for immigrants from all over the world because it has so much to offer. The changing demographics and population growth in itself have caused social changes that feel threatening to those who grew up in traditionally Anglo-White-Christian communities. These are the ones who flee to other states. Some posters here have said that these folks take their money and their jobs with them and that California won't survive the exodus. I'm no economist so I can't argue, but I haven't seen evidence of this.
What can be done to make things better? I don't have the answer to that, either, except to stay here and be a law-abiding, taxpaying citizen, an informed voter, and support the local merchants where I live. I still think that the good here outweighs the bad, but your mileage may vary.
What can be done to make things better? I don't have the answer to that, either, except to stay here and be a law-abiding, taxpaying citizen, an informed voter, and support the local merchants where I live.
Thanks, Curm! I hate paying taxes like everyone else does, but when I spend my money in California I like to think that I am doing my bit to keep people employed so they won't go away.
Because they remember what it used to be and what the Democrats have turned it into over the past three-plus decades.
having an extremely progressive tax code doesn't help either; the deluge of revenue which flows into the state treasury is NEVER utilized properly for the benefits of EVERYBODY, but winds up being directed to a very small sliver of the population to the detriment of everyone else, and especially the middle class, as our gasoline prices prove every single day.
Because they remember what it used to be and what the Democrats have turned it into over the past three-plus decades.
having an extremely progressive tax code doesn't help either; the deluge of revenue which flows into the state treasury is NEVER utilized properly for the benefits of EVERYBODY, but winds up being directed to a very small sliver of the population to the detriment of everyone else, and especially the middle class, as our gasoline prices prove every single day.
Gasoline prices have nothing to do with the tax code, although gas taxes are higher here than most states. Petroleum prices are set by Middle Eastern cartels and big oil companies, not state governments. Also, it's more expensive to produce gas that can be sold in California. The state's clean air laws require a special blend that keeps air pollution down.
I agree that California tax revenues aren't used as wisely as they could be. However, in that "small sliver of the population" you must also include those big companies that bid for state contracts and then overcharge for their services and public employees who can't be fired regardless of their performance but take home fat paychecks, paid healthcare and generous pension benefits.
One example of wastefulness is that in San Francisco the public transit system, Muni, has a policy that Muni drivers are permitted to not show up for work a certain number of days a year with no penalty. That's doesn't mean calling in sick, it means just not showing up for your shift. What private industry would allow this? It must cost the City a fortune because they have to have stand-by drivers available to cover the shifts. The City has been working with the public transit union to try to change the rules, but predictably there has been a great deal of resistance, strike threats, etc.
Here's another one: Years ago when the California State lottery was voted in, the rationale was that it would "help the schools." I see school districts struggling as much as ever, and every election cycle bonds are on the ballot to raise more money for schools. I would love to know where all that lottery money and bond money is going. It's certainly not benefiting "EVERYBODY."
That said, I'd like to know what perfect state in the U.S. ALWAYS uses its tax revenues for the benefit of ALL its citizens and doesn't waste a dime of it. Take your time, I'll wait.
Location: San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties
6,390 posts, read 9,679,297 times
Reputation: 2622
If you read through the massive volumes of posts by those who whine and complain about California, whether they live here or in some benighted state, they are nearly uniformly posted by urban conservatives.
They will state that they are the clear eyed observers and that those that do not complain about this state are blind delusional liberals.
Gasoline prices have nothing to do with the tax code, although gas taxes are higher here than most states. Petroleum prices are set by Middle Eastern cartels and big oil companies, not state governments. Also, it's more expensive to produce gas that can be sold in California. The state's clean air laws require a special blend that keeps air pollution down.
I agree that California tax revenues aren't used as wisely as they could be. However, in that "small sliver of the population" you must also include those big companies that bid for state contracts and then overcharge for their services and public employees who can't be fired regardless of their performance but take home fat paychecks, paid healthcare and generous pension benefits.
One example of wastefulness is that in San Francisco the public transit system, Muni, has a policy that Muni drivers are permitted to not show up for work a certain number of days a year with no penalty. That's doesn't mean calling in sick, it means just not showing up for your shift. What private industry would allow this? It must cost the City a fortune because they have to have stand-by drivers available to cover the shifts. The City has been working with the public transit union to try to change the rules, but predictably there has been a great deal of resistance, strike threats, etc.
Here's another one: Years ago when the California State lottery was voted in, the rationale was that it would "help the schools." I see school districts struggling as much as ever, and every election cycle bonds are on the ballot to raise more money for schools. I would love to know where all that lottery money and bond money is going. It's certainly not benefiting "EVERYBODY."
That said, I'd like to know what perfect state in the U.S. ALWAYS uses its tax revenues for the benefit of ALL its citizens and doesn't waste a dime of it. Take your time, I'll wait.
Repped - I agree, it may not be perfect but, to me, there is no place I would rather be - except Brookings OR on a part time only basis!
That pretty much seals the doom on your Surprise move. Can we change usernames here? You can change to "NEVER2BNSURPRISE."
Why move at all if you're looking for the same place?
When I started here, at City Data Forum, I had every intention of moving. We were going to follow the herds of others moving to the promised land of Arizona. That bubble burst and kept us here. Then the market changed and we were able to buy a home in Oxnard. I should change the name but I kind of like it.
We always liked living in Oxnard anyway and have so much more of a connection here than anyplace else. Maybe I should incorporate the Ventura County area or something close by into the name.
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