Poor state workers! We need to raise taxes more

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by HappyinCali

My mom is teacher of the year in an inner city school. Will you take my opinion on all things educational for face value as a result?

Seriously people, do you even read what you write?

A well-researched article full of statistics and examples says one thing, but I should take the word of a single retired state employee, who now lives in Missouri over that. Ok

I guess, I should also trust the military that what happened in Abu Ghraib was necessary, because they are the military and they know best.

Heck, why do we even have courts? The cops arrest criminals. If they say they are guilty, then they are. The cops are out on the street every day. Who else would possibly know better?

Do you realize how naive you sound?

Less naive than you sound bitter. Oh my! And I'm a former CA cop as well and, as is Fontucky, a former member of the military. So shoot me/us!

[HappyinCali]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

Less naive than you sound bitter. Oh my! And I'm a former CA cop as well and, as is Fontucky, a former member of the military. So shoot me/us!

So, because you are a former member of the military/police, your opinion is more valuable than actual facts? What are we Venezuela?

I spend the vast majority of my volunteer time involved with military charities. My top charity that I give money to is AER.

I was in ROTC, but didn't get commissioned due to medical issues. My friends have all served multiple tours of duty in Iraq and Afghanistan

How does all that validate/invalidate the statistics on union pay in California again, because I see absolutely no connection.

And, of course, a genuine appreciation for your service. Vets are some of the most forgotten members of our society, despite all the "support our troops magnets."

That still doesn't give you credibility in this argument, though.

And, yes, I am bitter. I am bitter, because a small number of state workers make us all work for them and pull the wool over the voters.

The CA teacher union is the most efficient lobbying entity in the country, getting 50% of the propositions they support passed and 75% of the propositions they oppose defeated. Yet our schools are in terrible shape

I live across the bay from the once great city of Oakland that has been failed by vested interests, including hundreds of NGOs, community organizations and, yes, unions. The latest? Teachers rejecting federal money, because they would have required evaluations. But it is all for the kids, right? Riiiiight

I love this state and I hate to see middle class families struggling with an ever increasing tax/fee burden, while unions always cry for more.

And no, I am not bitter, because I got rejected from a public job. I never applied for one, nor am I intending to apply to one any time soon. When I was on ROTC, I wasn't even on scholarship, because I had academic scholarships.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by HappyinCali

If you love the unions so much, why did you leave CA? I am done debating with you. You offer no statistics of actual examples. You offer rhetoric. It is impossible to debate rhetoric

LOL! What a stretch. I was a manager and despise unions. As for the rest, sorry to offer nothing but experience and resultant, real-world, anecdotal information.

PS. You're the one who brought up the military and police.

[HappyinCali]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

LOL! What a stretch. I was a manager and despise unions. As for the rest, sorry to offer nothing but experience and resultant, real-world, anecdotal information.

I will take statistics over anyone's word. Sorry, nothing personal. My wife has been pick-pocketed twice, our car has been broken into and our packages have been stolen. If you listened to me, you would think San Francisco is run over by petty criminals.

Reality is different, as evidenced by statistics.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by HappyinCali

I will take statistics over anyone's word. Sorry, nothing personal. My wife has been pick-pocketed twice, our car has been broken into and our packages have been stolen. If you listened to me, you would think San Francisco is run over by petty criminals.

Reality is different, as evidenced by statistics.

Hmm! Sounds like you may not be so happy in SF. Sorry about that, really. As for stats which are a dime a dozen on the Internet, figures lie and liars figure.

[Fontucky]

Originally Posted by HappyinCali

Do you realize how naive you sound?

Do you realize how Chicken Little you sound?

[HappyinCali]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

Hmm! Sounds like you may not be so happy in SF. Sorry about that, really. As for stats which are a dime a dozen on the Internet, figures lie and liars figure.

You sound like a good person, btw. I apologize if I am coming off too strong against you, but I feel very strongly about this issue

[harhar]

Well a union is not a union, is not a union.

I haven't received overtime, in well, ever. I just get comp time.

We've had furloughs, no COLAs (obviously), we can cash out up to 3 vacation days a year, and our health benefits have been on the rise.

Not to mention, the lack of advancement in a down economy.

And it's been this way for the past 5 years.

Quarreling over state worker overtime (which is .002% of the total spending BTW) seems misguided anyway. Especially since it seems as though it's being addressed.

Per the article:

"Unions pressed for every perk they could squeeze out of governors and their department managers -- including “arduous- duty” pay for office workers and special bonuses for call- center employees “in recognition of the complex workload and level and knowledge required to receive and respond to consumer calls,” state documents show.

Most public employees aren’t overpaid, and differences in compensation can be tied to regional labor markets, whether some states prefer delivering services at the local level and whether they have adequate staffing, said Steven Kreisberg, director of collective bargaining for the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees.

“I don’t think there’s this kind of huge disparity as if somehow they’re being overpaid and taking advantage of the systems,” Kreisberg said in a telephone interview from Washington. “This is earned money.”

California has one of the leanest public workforces in the country in terms of the number of state employees per resident, said Lacy, Brown’s spokesman. Measuring the payroll of its state workers per capita, excluding university employees, California ranks third-highest among the 12 largest states, according to data compiled by Bloomberg and the U.S. Census Bureau.

The California payroll totals reflected in the Bloomberg data have their roots in wage negotiations carried out during Davis’s time as governor."

Jerry Brown has been doing a lot to reign in spending. And that's what the article was hinting at, that we're trying to slowly fix what Davis messed up 13 years ago.

[HappyinCali]

Originally Posted by Fontucky

Do you realize how Chicken Little you sound?

I have not made a single projection in this thread about the future. All I have given is facts and statistics.

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by HappyinCali

You sound like a good person, btw. I apologize if I am coming off too strong against you, but I feel very strongly about this issue

I can tell. No harm, no foul!