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Lets Get Real. California is 4th from the the bottom, when you adjust the incomes for cost of living. In other words when you adjust the incomes to determine true buying power, California is not really much different than so many others, and certainly far from the best paid state.
In fact according to CBS Money Watch news report, California is considered 4th worst state to make a living, when the incomes are adjusted for cost of living.
And U.S. news on metro areas with 10 highest adjusted incomes, and the 10 lowest. Note 10 of the worst including Los Angelos, Long Beach, Glendale as one metro area. The biggest and most populated area of California, one of the worst places in the entire country to make a living.
You quote Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit. (Their Slogan, not mine.)
Wikipedia is the least reliable resource on the Internet. Anyone can write an article for them, and anyone can edit the articles to fit their own personal thinking. Note: I used major news sources.
And as to the poverty rate, the U.S. Government has finally realized that the poverty rate is different for each state, depending on cost of living. People can live in one area and live decently, and in another area and be living in poverty at the same household income. Proof that California has so much poverty, is the fact with 13% of the countries population, and 1/3rd of all welfare monies are spent in California.
They now have started to rate each state's poverty rate by cost of living, to come up with a true poverty rate. That is why California has jumped from about 16% poverty rate to over 23% of the population living in poverty, and now claim the title of State With Highest Poverty Rate In United States. This was determined by the Census Bureau, who keep facts about the country and are more accurate than any other source.
Of course, the real tragedy, is that people really believe that there is no better place than CA. I would agree with them as far as the gentle coastal enclaves go, but once you get into San Bernardino, and much of the IE, um no offense, but how is San Berdoo better than say Austin TX? Let's be real here.
And once you get over the mountains, forget it, the high desert is essentially nevada with all the CA problems and costs and none of the NV tax benefits.
I know families that struggle desperately, and that are considering leaving for better quality of life, these are educated professionals mind you. I'm friends with a family that moved to Colorado and it was the best choice ever, very nice home, poverty rate of less than 2%, making more money (real and nominal), better schools, lower crime, less grit, better infrastructure, better economy. The only thing they couldn't improve upon was the splendid OC weather and Disneyland. It's true, coastal CA has about the most comfortable climate in the world, but you have to really ask yourself if it is worth all the hardship. I think a large number of educated, professional young families are asking those questions and think that it is not. That doesn't bode well for the middle class. CA's poor population continues to grow, and it is understandable, CA is not a bad place to be if you are really poor, but the real costs fall on the middle class, which is shrinking, probably also to the delight of the CA cheerleaders on CD.
CA will continue to become a two tier society, very wealthy (domestic and international) and the underclass that serves them, with a few entrenched incumbents (who usually make up the CA wunderbias section on CD) sprinkled in. It will be like feudal times, with lords and the serfs who were bound to them.
Cheap (uumm affordable) areas in CA just aren't worth it, for the same money you could live in a host of other places in the US that offer a vastly superior standard of living and usually higher wages and a better economy. Contrary to the CA rah rah's on this board, you can actually live in a great place and it doesn't have to be TX (not that there is anything wrong with that). We are seeing that and that is partially the reason CA can never recover its revenues, it had such a large and vast economy that its destruction is happening in slow motion, but make no mistake, it is happening.
Last edited by GoldenZephyr; 01-03-2013 at 07:42 AM..
Location: San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties
6,390 posts, read 9,684,265 times
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And once you get over the mountains, forget it, the high desert is essentially nevada with all the CA problems and costs and none of the NV tax benefits.
Having moved to CA from NV, and owning property in Nevada the tax difference is not noticeable. If anyone thinks the high desert of CA is comparable to Nevada, they have not been to Nevada. Nevada has about 300 mountain ranges. I can take you to a plateau, 10-11,000 feet in elevation, with aspen forests, trout streams and elk herds. In a completely different part of Nevada there is this compare this tour to the desert of CA.
On July 15, one year, I found a still frozen lake in Nevada.
How does this view compare to the California desert?,
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I know families that struggle desperately, and that are considering leaving for better quality of life, these are educated professionals mind you. I'm friends with a family that moved to Colorado and it was the best choice ever, very nice home, poverty rate of less than 2%, making more money (real and nominal), better schools, lower crime, less grit, better infrastructure, better economy. The only thing they couldn't improve upon was the splendid OC weather and Disneyland. It's true, coastal CA has about the most comfortable climate in the world, but you have to really ask yourself if it worth all the hardship. I think a large number of educated, professional young families think that it is not. That doesn't bode well for the middle class.
I fail to see the hardship. I doubt seriously that schools anywhere are better than our local schools.
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Cheap (uumm affordable) areas in CA just aren't worth it, for the same money you could live in a host of other places in the US that offer a vastly superior standard of living and usually higher wages and a better economy.
How in the world does ones location offer a "vastly superior standard of living" over another, and what constitutes a "vastly superior standard of living"?
I'm sorry, I apparently assumed you shared your bunkmate oldtrader's opinions on what's to blame for most of what troubles Calif. If I'm wrong, I apologize. If.
Just spit it it already. I'm busy in the kitchen and don't feel like playing "guess what Leonard's thinking tonight."
And I am busy at work.
If you don't know then you are demonstrating why CA is having problems.
Think about it. The issues span a large range and have taken years to develop. It isn't just the housing crisis that is at the heart of it.
Your response was delightful, I do love your posts. That they seldom have any factual relationship to what the prior poster (me) posted only adds to their charm. Like driving through the desert and finding a redwood tree. Thank you.
As for your series of initials. The San Andreas Fault runs the wrong direction, and is the wrong sort of fault.
Hey it is not my fault at all.
As to relevancy, who says it has to be such. Some posts just make a nice spring board to a new thought that is sometimes directly related and others just tangentially related. Making people change thought in mid stream helps the mental process.
If you don't know then you are demonstrating why CA is having problems.
Think about it. The issues span a large range and have taken years to develop. It isn't just the housing crisis that is at the heart of it.
The why did you repeatedly demand an answer to “what has changed” in the last 40 years? The call of that question simply does not imply a lengthy treatise in response that analyzes the causes and effects of: education; availability of housing; real estate prices; Prop 13; changing tax bases; globalization; changing social mores; the rise and end of the cold war; domestic and foreign immigration; demographic changes in race and age; elimination and creation of work due to technological advancement; a diluted labor pool due to the rise of women in the workplace…
The why did you repeatedly demand an answer to “what has changed” in the last 40 years? The call of that question simply does not imply a lengthy treatise in response that analyzes the causes and effects of: education; availability of housing; real estate prices; Prop 13; changing tax bases; globalization; changing social mores; the rise and end of the cold war; domestic and foreign immigration; demographic changes in race and age; elimination and creation of work due to technological advancement; a diluted labor pool due to the rise of women in the workplace…
I don't need you to tell me to "think about it".
Then you know the problems and their causes.
The State is not doing what it could to fix the mistakes of the past, while enduring what it cannot change.
How many are a direct result of changes the State made, and did not have to, but chose to?
So what is being done to fix say a couple:
education; changing tax bases; changing social mores;
I fail to see the hardship. I doubt seriously that schools anywhere are better than our local schools.
Today the experts say education in Math and Science is the important measure of how well a school system is training young people for the present STEM (higher paid) jobs, and for the jobs of the future. The colleges and universities are complaining that students are not being prepared in these two subjects to go to college.
Why is California now rated as the 34th worst state for teaching these subjects, when they think they lead in the fields that require good grades in these subjects?
When the U.S. is rated out of 34 countries to be 25th in these countries, behind countries like China, South Korea, and Hong Kong. And then California who wants to brag they are leaders in technology which requires training in those fields, is down to 34th place in this country.
Yes, a lot of schools in this country and the world, are better than California schools.
Our school systems not training well enough, or enough students in those two fields, is a big reason that companies right there in Silicon Valley, are going overseas in bringing in electronic engineers, software engineers, etc. to work for them. When they want the best trained, they are looking elsewhere.
The State is not doing what it could to fix the mistakes of the past, while enduring what it cannot change.
How many are a direct result of changes the State made, and did not have to, but chose to?
So what is being done to fix say a couple:
education; changing tax bases; changing social mores;
Well that’s a start. But each ones of those is incredibly complex in and of itself. Off the top my head:
a) Public education; you can’t sufficiently analyze this without considering the impacts many changes, inter alia: population growth and immigration; the state’s over-reliance on income taxes in a national bubble economy whose bursts are felt most acutely here, particularly on the heels of Enron; the role of Prop 13 contributing to that overreliance; and the previous governor’s unfunded tax cuts. Or, we can just blame the teacher’s union and ignore the rest. However, one recent remedy is the recent passage of Prop 30.
b) Changing tax bases: please see above, among others. As far as what has been done recently: California predicts $1bn budget surplus - FT.com
c) Social mores: Little to nothing, as is appropriate. The State simply need to get the hell out the way when society changes, eg marriage equality, legalization of hemp.
Location: San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties
6,390 posts, read 9,684,265 times
Reputation: 2622
...
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I fail to see the hardship. I doubt seriously that schools anywhere are better than our local schools.
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Originally Posted by oldtrader
Today the experts say education in Math and Science is the important measure of how well a school system is training young people for the present STEM (higher paid) jobs, and for the jobs of the future. The colleges and universities are complaining that students are not being prepared in these two subjects to go to college.
As I like to say, Daughter #2, aced the national AP calculus test, and got 4s in all other areas, due to the quality teaching at our local schools., A fellow I know moved here from Dallas where as he told me, his elementary age kids were in the best school in the Dallas area, and he was worried about the quality of our local schools, turned out he was wise to be worried, his kids were so far behind they were in danger of failing.
Son just graduated UC Davis, that means of course, he got in to UC Davis. other daughter is a Junior in Geology at U of H and may very well go to grad school in Montana, all three kids went to California public schools. The best schools and kids in Ca are equal to the best anywhere
Why is California now rated as the 34th worst state for teaching these subjects, when they think they lead in the fields that require good grades in these subjects?
When the U.S. is rated out of 34 countries to be 25th in these countries, behind countries like China, South Korea, and Hong Kong. And then California who wants to brag they are leaders in technology which requires training in those fields, is down to 34th place in this country.
I hope you understand the concept of averages, consider averages and consider why averages are BS. Here, let me help you. That there are poor people in East Palo Alto does not affect the fact that there are rich people in Palo Alto
Yes, a lot of schools in this country and the world, are better than California schools.
That is an opinion, unless you can substantiate your statement, it remains, just your opinion. I gave you several sets of facts that demonstrate the quality of our schools.
Our school systems not training well enough, or enough students in those two fields, is a big reason that companies right there in Silicon Valley, are going overseas in bringing in electronic engineers, software engineers, etc. to work for them. When they want the best trained, they are looking elsewhere.
Try to work through your two concepts, "not training well enough" or "[not] enough students in those two fields" See if you can figure out where you went wrong.
Course, you failed to address the issue of "hardship"
22 degrees in along the Yellowstone River today. I went for a fine 4 hour motorcycle ride today in the War California Sun
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