What makes California schools so poor? (Santa Ana, Merced: sales, hotels, house)

[CAVA1990]

So far I've not heard anything saying the schools are poor rather than some of the students. I'm sure differences in performance can be explained almost completely by differences in demographic mix at each school.

[tablemtn]

I'm sure differences in performance can be explained almost completely by differences in demographic mix at each school.

That's pretty much all there is to it. Funding isn't the issue; demographically-similar school populations perform roughly the same across the country, despite big variations in funding levels. California looks bad on average because the overall student population has a much-higher share of lower-performing, lower-income, often second (or even third, in the case of parts of rural Mexico/Central America) language students than the nation at large.

It'd be great if money or charter schooling or some magical new teaching methodology could bring up the performance of that population to the norm, but that doesn't appear to be realistic. That's just sort of how it goes.

[CAVA1990]

Originally Posted by tablemtn

demographically-similar school populations perform roughly the same across the country, .

Yeah, go over to the Northern Virginia forum and you'll see this discussed endlessly. We have big differences in school performance within the same county school systems.

[NinaN]

Originally Posted by NewToCA

We'll see if the tax hike passed last election makes a difference in a few years. I wouldn't pay much attention to results the next couple of years though, too early to determine impact of additional funding.

Sadly, the tax hike will not give more money to schools as advertised. It simply reduces increasing the amount the state appropriates from school funding. Right now only about 72% of school taxes actually go to schools. The state uses the rest to pay for whatever it wants.

While funding is important, I believe the biggest determinant of student and school performance is parental involvement. If parents don't care, it's hard to get the kids to care. When parents are highly involved in the school, when they make (or help) kids do homework, when they impress upon their kids the value of education, the school performance is higher.

We have 4 elementary schools in our district. 3 are high performing, 1 is mediocre. In the mediocre school, I have heard that you can "hear crickets" the moment the class bell rings in the morning. In the other schools, parents are there, talking to each other, talking to teachers before class, talking to the school admins, talking to PTA members about fund raisers, and volunteering to help in the classroom.

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Originally Posted by Mack Knife

If what you say is true, and I am not arguing that point, the real problem isn't illegal immigrants.

Illegal immigrants are symptom, not a cause. The cause is the failure to enforce immigration laws. Enforce those laws and there are fewer illegal immigrants. Fewer illegal immigrants, fewer resourced diverted to try to teach them.

We already have an immigration system that can work very well, we as a people just aren't up to holding those in government accountable for using it and enforcing the laws that would sustain it.

Right after that, California has wholesale corruption in the administration of the public education system. It isn't even hidden, the corruption is out in the open for all to see.

It isn't going to change. The tipping point has been reached where the number of people voting with vested interests in the status quo outnumber the voters who care about the future.

Very true but it is what it is and you have to adapt to it given the cards dealt. We live in a pretty nice area and started investigating the local schools in advance of having children. We wondered why schools down the street were so poor performing. We made friends in the area and they all said to choice our kids out of the local schools. Talk about a shocker, then it hit. Every day a parade of school buses brings hundreds of students to schools in the area. The percentage of ESL students was absolutely amazing. I've seen the bus routes and they are almost all coming from areas in poor neighborhoods near the border.

Well, faced with that dilemma you do what you have to do and that is play the game. You send your kids to better schools outside of your neighborhood. It's an endless cycle so long as we have unlimited illegal immigration.

I realize this is not the reason for many parts of CA but it sure is here in San Diego.

[Ultrarunner]

Parental Involvement is huge... even parents that don't speak English set the tone at home regarding homework and respecting school and teachers.

My sister-in-law has been a volunteer teacher's aid at the public school their kids attend... my niece says Mom know all the teachers and we can't do anything bad because Mom will know about it... they also keep the kids busy with after school sports where both my sister-in-law and brother are volunteer coaches...

It does make a difference... there is no way it can't.

[CAVA1990]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

Parental Involvement is huge... even parents that don't speak English set the tone at home regarding homework and respecting school and teachers.

My sister-in-law has been a volunteer teacher's aid at the public school their kids attend... my niece says Mom know all the teachers and we can't do anything bad because Mom will know about it... they also keep the kids busy with after school sports where both my sister-in-law and brother are volunteer coaches...

It does make a difference... there is no way it can't.

I think that's more the case with at risk kids. With smart, well adjusted, upper middle class ones you can pretty much dump and run.

[Senno]

Originally Posted by CAVA1990

I think that's more the case with at risk kids. With smart, well adjusted, upper middle class ones you can pretty much dump and run.

They only get that way by said parental involvement.

[Leonard64]

Originally Posted by Senno

Pretty much...

I got out of school before the new math hit, though

Teaching social issues isn't ideologically driven, it explains reality... Unless you want to raise racists or kids that have babies in high school for instance...

My niece is taking sex ed now and she's 10. My sister went to the school to pre-screen the material and it's fine for her age. She attends a school in Clovis Unified.

If anyone wants to move to Fresno, Clovis Unified is where to be. See how it's spread in an upside down L on the link? It's in Sunnyside up to Clovis and into NE Fresno (I don't know what's up with Valley Oak, that's in downtown Fresno, and not gonna google it). The 6 rated school Fancher Creek is closest to me, and that's technically Fresno County. CUSD actually reaches into NW Fresno at Nelson Elementary.

Clovis Unified in Clovis, CA | GreatSchools

Hi,

Teaching children to care for people, avoid racism and other objectionable actions is just fine. Giving good information and direction on sex matters, at appropriate ages is fine and these days is needed. However many "moral" issues are political and ideological issues and are based at times on consensus and at others by force of Law. Neither makes it truly moral. Worse than that is the restructuring of history. That can impact so much more than just the record, it changes perceptions at times in ways not intended (or in some cases intended). Social engineering belongs in the adult room not the children s room.

Just think what was moral VS immoral 40 years ago, 100 years ago VS today. Some potentially good changes and some bad. Consensus does not make anything good or bad, nor are we any wiser than past generations, we just like to think we are.

[Senno]

Originally Posted by Leonard64

Hi,

Teaching children to care for people, avoid racism and other objectionable actions is just fine. Giving good information and direction on sex matters, at appropriate ages is fine and these days is needed. However many "moral" issues are political and ideological issues and are based at times on consensus and at others by force of Law. Neither makes it truly moral. Worse than that is the restructuring of history. That can impact so much more than just the record, it changes perceptions at times in ways not intended (or in some cases intended). Social engineering belongs in the adult room not the children s room.

Just think what was moral VS immoral 40 years ago, 100 years ago VS today. Some potentially good changes and some bad. Consensus does not make anything good or bad, nor are we any wiser than past generations, we just like to think we are.

That's what we're doing here... No sexist, racist, misogynist, anti-homosexual haters.

I have detected no re-writing of history at their school Leonard. Occasionally I hep em with their homework, as I'm on call babysitter sometimes if Grandpa's to busy. /shrug