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Old 04-07-2013, 03:00 PM
 
Location: On the water.
17,590 posts, read 10,100,886 times
Reputation: 14757

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fargobound View Post
Mudslinging?

9.6% unemployment rate

23.2% poverty rate

Second worst credit rating of all the states.

High school drop out rate that rivals poor southern states

These are facts, so don’t confuse facts with mudslinging. The Stockton BK deal will set the precedent for other mismanaged cities to follow.
Seriously Fargo.

World's 9th best economy - in hard times.

Most populous state in the U.S.

Why do you think so many of our nation's and other nation's poor gravitate to California? Because it is a hell-hole?

Don't confuse individual hiccups (like Stockton) with California's resources. You know like the ports trading with Asia that don't exist in N. Dakota.

Oh by the way, that credit rating thing:
S&P upgrades California's credit rating - Sacramento Business Journal

You miss it here. Badly. Don't you. Honest question.
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Old 04-07-2013, 03:18 PM
 
Location: Cold Springs, NV
4,575 posts, read 10,647,274 times
Reputation: 5061
California will continue to be the nations largest state economy for years to come no matter what the naysayers claim. Everyone has been hit by the economic downturn, and that includes California. It still pays out more in federal tax dollars than it takes in unlike red states who live off blue state prosperity.
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Old 04-07-2013, 03:22 PM
 
4,231 posts, read 6,685,153 times
Reputation: 10117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulemutt View Post

You must not understand much about credit ratings. Even with the recent upgrade, CA is the second place loser. It will be interesting to see how the budget process plays out again this summer.


Stateline - States sell general obligation bonds to investors to pay for big-ticket projects such as roads, schools, parks and other public works.
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Old 04-07-2013, 03:43 PM
 
Location: On the water.
17,590 posts, read 10,100,886 times
Reputation: 14757
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fargobound View Post
You must not understand much about credit ratings. Even with the recent upgrade, CA is the second place loser. It will be interesting to see how the budget process plays out again this summer.


Stateline - States sell general obligation bonds to investors to pay for big-ticket projects such as roads, schools, parks and other public works.
I'd say it is you that understands nothing about credit ratings. At the levels all of the United States operate there is no problem borrowing or selling bonds, etc. The credit rating game is first cousin to a scam. The only effect it has on anything is a super fractional increase in interest rates.

But the real point here is that you are trying to make yourself feel justified about having left your home state - for a place like N. Dakota, bless its little heart. You miss it badly everyday.
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Old 04-07-2013, 06:20 PM
 
7,281 posts, read 9,660,742 times
Reputation: 11460
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack Knife View Post
Almost every person with a house is broke then. Every person with a car loan is surely broke since it is probably worth 1/3 of the balance on the loan.

Think it through before you jump on the bandwagon.

If you have no income, no chance of generating income and all remains static, then yes, you are broke.

If you owe say $500,000 and have 100,000 in the bank are you broke? If you have no job, no other assets, yes. But what if you will make 3 million over the next 20 years? Are you still broke? Hardly.

There is a huge difference between cash flow, a snapshot in time and what happens over time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeCalifornia View Post
How do you figure this? Yes, many people are upside down on their homes, but hardly "almost every person." As far as cars, I think they're usually worth around half of the purchase price after 5 years, which is the term of most loans. Yes, there's a period right after purchase where its worth less than the loan, assuming you financed 100%, since it loses value the moment its driven off the lot. But over time, that decreases as the loan balance is reduced faster than continued loss of value.
If you read the entire comment instead of stopping after the first couple of lines, you'd realize your comment makes absolutely no sense. Really, at least try to comment in context of someone's comment instead of picking one line then arguing a positive for which they already acknowledge.
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Old 04-07-2013, 06:25 PM
 
7,281 posts, read 9,660,742 times
Reputation: 11460
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWillys View Post
California will continue to be the nations largest state economy for years to come no matter what the naysayers claim. Everyone has been hit by the economic downturn, and that includes California. It still pays out more in federal tax dollars than it takes in unlike red states who live off blue state prosperity.
They don't get it. Since I was a kid all I heard was how California was broke, everyone was leaving, this, that and the other thing. Same for the earthquake predictors. Every time they say something about earthquakes it is always within the next 20-50 years. These arguments, always relative to the time made, are insurance against being wrong. Yes, eventually anything can happen and then those who change their time horizons to be 20-50 years from the date they said it last claim accuracy.

If California goes broke, who in the right mind see any different for any other state? In case they haven't figured it out, all those other states sell good into the California economy and should people in California stop buying, just where are they going to sell to, themselves?
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Old 04-07-2013, 06:34 PM
 
7,281 posts, read 9,660,742 times
Reputation: 11460
Quote:
Originally Posted by ukiyo-e View Post
I'm basically in agreement, but will point out that agriculture only contributes 2% to California's GDP (Google it; there are lots of sources for this figure), and when I worked in the UC system up until 2010, there was a major brain drain going on because the budget cuts were so deep that departments were unable to fill faculty positions and support research, so highly-regarded faculty were leaving for other systems. My own supervisor left for an out-of-state university that gave her a 50% pay raise, a new lab, and free tuition for her children, which UCs don't offer. A friend of mine who teaches at UCSD said they lost some internationally famous cancer researchers to Rice University.

I'm not bashing the state at all, but some people ignore the problems because they don't personally affect them. I still keep up with the goings on in CA and I'm getting the impression the state is pulling out of the worst of the slump - real estate, for example, is recovering, which will help property tax receipts - but some damage HAS been done. My main concern would be the massively underfunded pension system. In WA the system is 95% funded; in CA last I read it was about 2/3, and it's a much larger system. Something like $181 billion out of whack. That money has to come from somewhere.
Lots of figures get thrown around, usually with some reference to Google search. Come on, is anyone vetting these numbers or just throwing them out to see what sticks?

Lets take the SIEPR study, conducted using Stanfords name. Anyone bother to see the roots of that study? The same applies to most of them, agendas all.

Take your pick and each of them use an "assumed" rate of return on investments.

"Assumed" do we really need to go there?
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Old 04-07-2013, 07:37 PM
 
Location: Police State
1,472 posts, read 2,133,569 times
Reputation: 1228
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWillys View Post
It still pays out more in federal tax dollars than it takes in unlike red states who live off blue state prosperity.
Well no actually. You see, the states don't write those checks, people do. I haven't the slightest idea why people continue to parrot such nonsense. I guess pushing an agenda is a higher priority to some people than the truth. And please define prosperity. Is it having a net worth of -$127 billion like California?
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Old 04-07-2013, 08:47 PM
 
Location: On the water.
17,590 posts, read 10,100,886 times
Reputation: 14757
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZhugeLiang View Post
Well no actually. You see, the states don't write those checks, people do. I haven't the slightest idea why people continue to parrot such nonsense. I guess pushing an agenda is a higher priority to some people than the truth. And please define prosperity. Is it having a net worth of -$127 billion like California?
Well yes actually. "The state" IS its people - who, in California, write those checks to the federal government in greater amounts than what their state gets back in federal spending.

Having a minus net worth on an assets to income balance sheet means pretty much nothing when the person or entity owns immutable, non-transferable resources and features that are irreplaceably critical to the nation - and world. For example, as recently discussed elsewhere: trading ports with Asia, the nation's most fertile farm lands, the world's chosen home for high-tech design and development, the world's greatest concentration of venture capital investments and managers, incomparable brain trust, natural geography that brings tourists in massively profitable numbers and anchors residential desirability exceeding all other states, and so forth.

Those are known as economic engines - that cannot be calculated into hard-asset balance sheets. Tangible intangibles. Prosperity flows freely from such natural wealth.
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Old 04-07-2013, 08:59 PM
 
Location: LBC
4,155 posts, read 4,807,412 times
Reputation: 3554
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZhugeLiang View Post
Well no actually. You see, the states don't write those checks, people do. I haven't the slightest idea why people continue to parrot such nonsense. I guess pushing an agenda is a higher priority to some people than the truth. And please define prosperity. Is it having a net worth of -$127 billion like California?
Understanding this is necessary for an informed analysis of states' respective fiscals conditions. California taxpayers pay more to the feds than they receive, effectively subsidizing the governments of red states and the conservative welfare queens that live there. I generally oppose cultures of dependency, and CA could use another $15,000,000,000 or so every single year to pay its own bills, but those hapless ingrates obviously have nowhere else to turn. And revenue neutral states like Texas skate by not picking up their share of the bar-tab and they're the ones who kept ordering these incompetents shots of political Everclear. The fact you can't understand this and think it's nonsense suggests you should move to one of those places.
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