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LOL 10% sales tax is the definition of regressive taxation. All the gasoline, dmv etc. taxes are the definition of regressive taxation
LOL? Whut? The taxation that is most cited in complaints is state income taxes -- which in California is, as I wrote, highly progressive. The other taxes you mention are flat rate that apply to all the same and thus regressive, however that is the case with all states (that have sales tax) in general -- and which is partially offset in California by no taxes on food.
Now then, to take it a step further, any whining about a high sales tax is just plain silly. Sales taxes everywhere in the nation run most typically between about 4% and 7.5% (California) ... nearly all also include a range of local taxes to be added on. Some local taxes added to state base sales taxes are very much higher than California. I am quite sure that a detailed analysis would show that the difference in sales tax burden between California and lower states wouldn't amount to more than a couple percent at best. Now, you can wail about a couple percent as being an outrage, or you can figure it out against qualifying purchases and see it is a few hundred dollars a year for the average person at most.
A consumer can also control most purchasing - other than family food ... which is not taxed in California. Luxuries are optional purchases.
As an example of how much differences really cost, people do love to cry and throw tantrums on this board about the high cost of gasoline in California -- some of which cost is special blends, and some is taxes. But when actually calculated out against the costs of gas in low gas price states, the average driver in California is paying roughly $20 - $25 a month more. Now, if that's something in a person's life to cause them to live elsewhere -- I think they should.
In summary, I repeat: unless you are very wealthy indeed, taxes in California are a very minor issue ... and for most, not worth living elsewhere.
LOL? Whut? The taxation that is most cited in complaints is state income taxes -- which in California is, as I wrote, highly progressive. The other taxes you mention are flat rate that apply to all the same and thus regressive, however that is the case with all states (that have sales tax) in general -- and which is partially offset in California by no taxes on food.
Now then, to take it a step further, any whining about a high sales tax is just plain silly. Sales taxes everywhere in the nation run most typically between about 4% and 7.5% (California) ... nearly all also include a range of local taxes to be added on. Some local taxes added to state base sales taxes are very much higher than California. I am quite sure that a detailed analysis would show that the difference in sales tax burden between California and lower states wouldn't amount to more than a couple percent at best. Now, you can wail about a couple percent as being an outrage, or you can figure it out against qualifying purchases and see it is a few hundred dollars a year for the average person at most.
A consumer can also control most purchasing - other than family food ... which is not taxed in California. Luxuries are optional purchases.
As an example of how much differences really cost, people do love to cry and throw tantrums on this board about the high cost of gasoline in California -- some of which cost is special blends, and some is taxes. But when actually calculated out against the costs of gas in low gas price states, the average driver in California is paying roughly $20 - $25 a month more. Now, if that's something in a person's life to cause them to live elsewhere -- I think they should.
In summary, I repeat: unless you are very wealthy indeed, taxes in California are a very minor issue ... and for most, not worth living elsewhere.
All of this amounts to nothing really. I don't really care about most people on this board complain about.
Sales taxes are regressive in nature. CA has the highest sales tax in the country (Rates | Sales Tax Institute), so that's very regressive.
CA also probably has more road tolls, higher vehichle registration fees, higher driver license fees, cell phone fees than any other state
So unless, you are one of those ivory tower people, who believe that a phone, a computer, a car and the ability to drive that car is a luxury that poor people should be happy to get, then CA tax system is highly regressive.
I personally don't care that much about the income tax, even though it is more of a financial impact on me. I understand what it covers and why it is needed.
LOL? Whut? The taxation that is most cited in complaints is state income taxes -- which in California is, as I wrote, highly progressive. The other taxes you mention are flat rate that apply to all the same and thus regressive, however that is the case with all states (that have sales tax) in general -- and which is partially offset in California by no taxes on food.
Now then, to take it a step further, any whining about a high sales tax is just plain silly. Sales taxes everywhere in the nation run most typically between about 4% and 7.5% (California) ... nearly all also include a range of local taxes to be added on. Some local taxes added to state base sales taxes are very much higher than California. I am quite sure that a detailed analysis would show that the difference in sales tax burden between California and lower states wouldn't amount to more than a couple percent at best. Now, you can wail about a couple percent as being an outrage, or you can figure it out against qualifying purchases and see it is a few hundred dollars a year for the average person at most.
A consumer can also control most purchasing - other than family food ... which is not taxed in California. Luxuries are optional purchases.
As an example of how much differences really cost, people do love to cry and throw tantrums on this board about the high cost of gasoline in California -- some of which cost is special blends, and some is taxes. But when actually calculated out against the costs of gas in low gas price states, the average driver in California is paying roughly $20 - $25 a month more. Now, if that's something in a person's life to cause them to live elsewhere -- I think they should.
In summary, I repeat: unless you are very wealthy indeed, taxes in California are a very minor issue ... and for most, not worth living elsewhere.
Must be nice to live in an ivory tower. Tell that several hundred dollar is nothing to a family that makes $20k a year.
Can someone tell explain why the food tastes so much more delicious here? I mean for example the exact same whole food store stuff tastes far better here that in other parts of the country.
It doesn't. Kinda going overboard on this aren't you?
LOL? Whut? The taxation that is most cited in complaints is state income taxes -- which in California is, as I wrote, highly progressive. The other taxes you mention are flat rate that apply to all the same and thus regressive, however that is the case with all states (that have sales tax) in general -- and which is partially offset in California by no taxes on food.
Now then, to take it a step further, any whining about a high sales tax is just plain silly. Sales taxes everywhere in the nation run most typically between about 4% and 7.5% (California) ... nearly all also include a range of local taxes to be added on. Some local taxes added to state base sales taxes are very much higher than California. I am quite sure that a detailed analysis would show that the difference in sales tax burden between California and lower states wouldn't amount to more than a couple percent at best. Now, you can wail about a couple percent as being an outrage, or you can figure it out against qualifying purchases and see it is a few hundred dollars a year for the average person at most.
A consumer can also control most purchasing - other than family food ... which is not taxed in California. Luxuries are optional purchases.
As an example of how much differences really cost, people do love to cry and throw tantrums on this board about the high cost of gasoline in California -- some of which cost is special blends, and some is taxes. But when actually calculated out against the costs of gas in low gas price states, the average driver in California is paying roughly $20 - $25 a month more. Now, if that's something in a person's life to cause them to live elsewhere -- I think they should.
In summary, I repeat: unless you are very wealthy indeed, taxes in California are a very minor issue ... and for most, not worth living elsewhere.
By the way, you do realize what regressive means, right? And what poor means. right? You realize that $500 more per year in just gas is a lot for a low income family? So should low-income families just peace out then? CA is just for the rich, ya know?
All of this amounts to nothing really. I don't really care about most people on this board complain about.
Sales taxes are regressive in nature. CA has the highest sales tax in the country (Rates | Sales Tax Institute), so that's very regressive.
CA also probably has more road tolls, higher vehichle registration fees, higher driver license fees, cell phone fees than any other state
So unless, you are one of those ivory tower people, who believe that a phone, a computer, a car and the ability to drive that car is a luxury that poor people should be happy to get, then CA tax system is highly regressive.
I personally don't care that much about the income tax, even though it is more of a financial impact on me. I understand what it covers and why it is needed.
You can continue drinking the koolaid fed to you by the propaganda machine, but all the taxes and fees that CA charges are regressive. sorry
I can buy my Kool-Aid from a machine? Well, shucks, here I am slogging away to make mine by myself the Old Timey way, drawing from observation and informed by comparative experience. Where can I find this prolific machine that reports nothing but positive news about the current state of the California economy?
Seriously, that’s simply delusional, albeit impressive in that some actually believe it. Greg Popovich can’t work the refs that effectively.
I can buy my Kool-Aid from a machine? Well, shucks, here I am slogging away to make mine by myself the Old Timey way, drawing from observation and informed by comparative experience. Where can I find this prolific machine that reports nothing but positive news about the current state of the California economy?
Seriously, that’s simply delusional, albeit impressive in that some actually believe it. Greg Popovich can’t work the refs that effectively.
If you are going to debate my post, I would try to debate with facts, suchs as the ones I posted.
My reference to the "propaganda machine" is the one that lets you believe that the tax system in CA is progressive (both paties do that - the Republicans to complain and the Democrats to make you feel better about your tax burden). Dig under the hood and you realize how regressive the current sytem is.
Location: Baghdad by the Bay (San Francisco, California)
3,530 posts, read 5,136,325 times
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I'll admit that a FAMILY making $20,000/yr can't afford to put California's more expensive gas in their car(s), but I question whether they can afford the car at all. They can't afford insurance, registration and maintenance either, after paying for rent, food and utilities. Nor could they afford it anywhere else, I'd suspect.
We can't base our entire system on the affordability levels of the dysfunctionally poor. That seems communistic. This has been the deal in this country as I understand it, for its entire history. I work hard to be able to live in California. If I lacked ambition or wanted to cruise along and take it easy, I'd move back to Texas. I may do it one day.
I came to California to take advantage of the opportunities for career growth and personal happiness that I don't believe exist anywhere else. I came with eyes open, knowing I would pay a lot for it. If a family is stuck making $20k and is systematically held back by California's policies, the reasonable response is for that family to seek a place, profession, or situation that will allow them to grow out of poverty, not dumb-down the system to the lowest common denominator.
California is expensive, but the payoff is big for those with drive and vision. The idea is to struggle through the hardships to find opportunities for real growth, which seem abundant to me, someone who came here by choice from one of those "low-tax" states in the South.
Seriously people, I LOVE CALIFORNIA. I don't understand how so many of you are missing my point.
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All I said is that our tax system is regressive, which is in direct response to a previous post. I will paste my feelings again
California is heaven on earth, if you make a decent income. You don't have to be rich, but you need to make some money.
Delparadise's earlier post captures my feelings exactly. I have travelled all over the world and I usually start dreaming of coming back to California in a couple of days.
However, I am lucky to have a good job. Some of my friends don't and their lives are a constant hustle (especially if they have kids) and i would say their quality of life is worse than my friends' in cheaper states with similar income.
California also has a dark underbelly that does not fit with the romanticized version, but what place doesn't? San Joaquin valley, south LA etc.
In the end, I wouldnt want to live anywhere else. But you gotta be able to afford all the awesomeness or be willing to hustle some.
...CA has the highest sales tax in the country ...
Actually, not quite right ... California is high but not the highest ... but what is more important is to grasp relative differences ... look at the list below ... one state higher than California and eight states within 1% of California:
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States With the Highest Sales Taxes
Tennessee came in as the state with the highest combined state and local sales tax rate with a top combined rate of 9.44%. After Tennessee, the states with the highest state and local sales tax rates are California (9.08%), Arizona (9.01%), Louisiana (8.69%), Washington (8.61%), New York (8.52%), Oklahoma (8.33%), Illinois (8.22%), Arkansas (8.10%) and Alabama (8.03%).
You are also generalizing over a broad variable: local taxes ... for example, from your Tax Foundation source:
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The five states with the highest average combined rates are Tennessee (9.44 percent), Arizona (9.16 percent), Louisiana (8.87 percent), Washington (8.86 percent), and Oklahoma (8.67 percent).
The highest total sales tax rate in the United States is in Tuba City, Arizona, which has a combined rate of 13.725 percent.
Splitting hairs though, however much fun, is practically pointless. Because a family that earns only $20,000 annually has virtually no discretionary income after housing and food (and food isn't taxed in CA, remember). If they somehow carved out a few hundred a month for a restaurant meal, some new clothing, or a tv, what's 1% or 2% of say $300? Right: $3 - $6 a month more than in a low sales tax state. Whoa.
Hollering about the "highest rates" is somewhat like hollering about $0.03 difference in the cost of two loaves of bread from different bakeries -- where one might be $3.25, and the other $3.28. You don't buy on price in that situation -- you look for moldy green or rock hard slices and buy the good stuff.
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Originally Posted by HappyinCali
... CA also probably has more road tolls, higher vehichle registration fees, higher driver license fees, cell phone fees than any other state
You should check before you make claims ...
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Originally Posted by HappyinCali
... I personally don't care that much about the income tax, ...
That's nice. Most people do and that is what most people focus on in their complaints about California taxes.
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Originally Posted by HappyinCali
Must be nice to live in an ivory tower. Tell that several hundred dollar is nothing to a family that makes $20k a year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyinCali
By the way, you do realize what regressive means, right? And what poor means. right? You realize that $500 more per year in just gas is a lot for a low income family? So should low-income families just peace out then? CA is just for the rich, ya know?
I'm going to guess you haven't read many of my posts in the past. And I'm going to guess you are quite young too. I live in a van -- yes, literally ... I am typing this in my van right now -- on far less $$ than most people on this forum earn. As a self-employed, disabled war veteran, I have been dirt poor my entire life -- although I have managed to build a fat net worth I don't use. And I am chastised and joked with about being a communist, socialist, bleeding heart *******, and so on endlessly here for defending the dignity of the poor, disabled, and homeless among us and volunteering on their behalf.
I am willing to bet my little money that I know about everything more in the life of being poor than you do. I know that poor people don't drive much more than absolutely necessary -- so don't buy that much gas. They don't have discretionary money every month to buy things that carry sales taxes either. The difference per month for them over a low sales tax state is a few Starbucks for you, at most. Take that savings to your favorite low-tax state and apply it toward winter clothing and heating bills and snow tires -- then get back to me about how much you are saving.
I suggest you consider doing actual analysis with calculations rather than argue the concept of highest as meaningful. Like I wrote above: moldy bread for $3.25 is cheaper than fresh whole grain at $3.28 a loaf ... you're right.
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