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Old 08-11-2013, 08:17 PM
 
Location: San Diego
2,948 posts, read 1,544,850 times
Reputation: 2203

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Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
They just don't get it. They want sooo badly to balme the Capitalist business owner they can't accept that such owners WANT a prosperous workforce.
Except for their own employees.
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Old 08-11-2013, 10:41 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,460 posts, read 20,014,267 times
Reputation: 4365
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtrader View Post
Wrong. For the capitalist to prosper, they need a strong labor market, where people are making money and can afford to buy their products, and services. A weak market, with depressed wages, means a poor economy, and business slows down.
If you look at the growth of consumer debt since the 1980's you'll find that the capitalist found a way out of this dilemma. With credit, the capitalist is able to keep wages low while not impacting demand for the foreseeable future. Of course, in the long-term this will fall apart (it is currently falling apart), but capitalists rarely plan for the long-term.

Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
They just don't get it. They want sooo badly to balme the Capitalist business owner they can't accept that such owners WANT a prosperous workforce.
Blame the capitalist for what? I'm just describing the reality of matters. Capitalist don't care about the prosperity of the workforce...they only care about the demand for their products. Whether they stimulate this demand with debt or a prosperous work-force makes no difference, and given that a weak labor force has numerous other benefits demand stimulated by debt is preferable and that is where we've been the last 3~4 decades. Weak labor, growing debt.
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Old 08-12-2013, 12:58 AM
 
9,891 posts, read 11,699,393 times
Reputation: 22085
Quote:
They just don't get it. They want sooo badly to balme the Capitalist business owner they can't accept that such owners WANT a prosperous workforce.
What they don't understand, is without the Capitalist business owners, there would not be jobs but government jobs. They cannot accept the fact, that Capitalist business owners, are really happy when the country is prosperous and everyone is working as that is when they make money. It is when the economy implodes, that they end up bankrupt and lose it all.
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Old 08-12-2013, 01:31 AM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,460 posts, read 20,014,267 times
Reputation: 4365
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtrader View Post
They cannot accept the fact, that Capitalist business owners, are really happy when the country is prosperous and everyone is working as that is when they make money. It is when the economy implodes, that they end up bankrupt and lose it all.
As I pointed out in my previous post, all the capitalist cares about is whether there is demand for his/her products. Whether that demand is stimulated by debt or good wages makes no difference and since there is a strong preference for paying low wages from the capitalist stimulating demand with debt will be preferred.

If capitalists really cared about a prosperous workers, we wouldn't have had declining real wages over the last 2~3 decades. Workers are getting less and less prosperous.....
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Old 08-12-2013, 11:52 AM
 
28,107 posts, read 63,466,347 times
Reputation: 23225
Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
Good for them and good for you. IF only there were more parents with your parents values and willingness to help you learn some important values, instead of buying their kids every new gadget that comes along so they look like good parents.
Looks like it stopped at my generation...

I always have projects my young neices and nephews could do to earn money... a few times it worked out.

Most of the time, the parents don't want the kids working "Menial" jobs like painting, cleaning or raking up the leaves. They also are deathly afraid of the kids being in the neighborhood where I live and where they grew up...

These kids are all focused on sports to the point of scholarship level...

I do think the work ethic in terms of earning a buck is easily lost...
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Old 08-12-2013, 05:09 PM
 
18,172 posts, read 16,287,447 times
Reputation: 9325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
Looks like it stopped at my generation...

I always have projects my young neices and nephews could do to earn money... a few times it worked out.

Most of the time, the parents don't want the kids working "Menial" jobs like painting, cleaning or raking up the leaves. They also are deathly afraid of the kids being in the neighborhood where I live and where they grew up...

These kids are all focused on sports to the point of scholarship level...

I do think the work ethic in terms of earning a buck is easily lost...
Sad but true. The easy life has been held out as normal and hard work supplanted with a college degree. Oops that isn't working AND it takes hard work to get a College degree of any real value.

I am sooo glad I learned the value of hard work at any job and had many "menial" jobs when younger. Now as a Corp President, doing business with many of the largest Corporations in the world (and they generally come to me), have several patents and two more in the works. I know I would not be where I am, without that early education. Oh, no college degree just a C+ from HS and ... hard work.
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Old 08-14-2013, 01:50 AM
 
Location: USA
3,966 posts, read 10,670,259 times
Reputation: 2225
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
Most kids couldn't have paper routes even in principle, but why is working as a kid a good thing? I had a paper route when I was a kid for years, it taught me nothing and just distracted from what was actually important.

In any case, hard work is by no means essential. Being born into the right family, being very intelligent, etc will all get you further than "hard work".
Quote:
Originally Posted by HereOnMars View Post
Working as a child is a good thing because it is one way to teach a child responsibility. Children don't learn responsibility until they have something to be responsible for. Whether it's a paper route, mowing lawns, or working as a bagger in a grocery store, there is a lot to be gained by letting that child know the world will not cater to them and they must learn to do something, in order to fit into society. The work doesn't have to be hard but it must be something that instills values like responsibility, accountability and a sense of achievement in them. Just because you didn't learn anything, doesn't mean it's pointless to do so.

And being born into the right family? Don't you mean a wealthy family? Having money only means you can afford to pay your way in life. It doesn't mean you are guaranteed happiness.
Why are you talking about happiness? I thought we were talking about responsibility.

Forcing a child to do labor of any kind or having a job that earns money of any kind does not guarantee anything. Nor does having good grades in school mean anything as far as how responsible. I think it's much deeper. I believe it is the morals and practice of the family unit that decides if the child is responsible later in life or not. Overloading a child with physical labor, mental labor, and both, raising babies, will only burn you out.

I'll use myself as an example.

By the age of 8. I was doing every chore in the house minus cooking. Mowing the lawn, pull weeds, vacuum, dust, fold clothes, clean bathrooms, clean kitchen. During summer vacation or long breaks, I would go door to door offering cleaning services. Washing cars, cleaning your house, ect. My parents were not overachievers and only required a B average. I never met that. Every other year summer vacation was dedicated to being grounded to my room. Every other year I would get beat because of it. One year I was given the blessing of babysitting twin boys until I was twelve years old every single summer. Until I graduated high school I continued with the practice of being grounded every other summer. I forgot to mention my parents were never home.

I didn't learn responsibility until I was an adult and had my own child. I would never force my child to go through or do anything I went through. Instead of forcing labor on a child, teaching them how to succeed in life is a much better approach then the old slave master approach. Trust me. Guide them, not force them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by expatCA View Post
Sad but true. The easy life has been held out as normal and hard work supplanted with a college degree. Oops that isn't working AND it takes hard work to get a College degree of any real value.

I am sooo glad I learned the value of hard work at any job and had many "menial" jobs when younger. Now as a Corp President, doing business with many of the largest Corporations in the world (and they generally come to me), have several patents and two more in the works. I know I would not be where I am, without that early education. Oh, no college degree just a C+ from HS and ... hard work.
More like luck and timing. Just like the FX market. Luck and timing.
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Old 08-14-2013, 05:47 PM
 
18,172 posts, read 16,287,447 times
Reputation: 9325
Quote:
Originally Posted by benshaton View Post
Except for their own employees.
Them too or they can't buy and the money does not circulate. What they don't want to do is pay more than the employee is worth to the company via productivity. That means fewer people hired as the available funds go down and ... employment goes up. Remember no o0ne must stay at a job and if they think they are not paid enough, .... quit and find anoter better paying one, with a Liberal Socialist employer
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Old 08-14-2013, 05:49 PM
 
18,172 posts, read 16,287,447 times
Reputation: 9325
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtrader View Post
What they don't understand, is without the Capitalist business owners, there would not be jobs but government jobs. They cannot accept the fact, that Capitalist business owners, are really happy when the country is prosperous and everyone is working as that is when they make money. It is when the economy implodes, that they end up bankrupt and lose it all.
Wait I remember a country with no Capitalist business, it was the USSR. Oh and Cuba; and even under Chavez Venezuela moved that way. Worked real good.
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Old 08-14-2013, 05:53 PM
 
18,172 posts, read 16,287,447 times
Reputation: 9325
Quote:
Originally Posted by shiphead View Post

I am sooo glad I learned the value of hard work at any job and had many "menial" jobs when younger. Now as a Corp President, doing business with many of the largest Corporations in the world (and they generally come to me), have several patents and two more in the works. I know I would not be where I am, without that early education. Oh, no college degree just a C+ from HS and ... hard work.



More like luck and timing. Just like the FX market. Luck and timing.
Oh, so my hard work and good business ethics I learned had nothing to do with it. I was just in my garage making product at the right time and staying up late to finish customer orders had nothing to do with it. Anyone who is lazy could have done it if the timing was right and they were in the right place and of course they really didn't have to work hard at actually taking care of the customer needs, luck and timing will do that, and wrap the boxes for shipping to.
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