Is the proposed minimum wage hike good for the California Economy? (San Jose: hotels, college)

[nullgeo]

Well, I wasn't inclined to play anymore on this one, but I am amused suddenly.

Originally Posted by mysticaltyger

Your assertions are purely speculative. But even going along with them, Japan is the same size as CA with 125 million.

My assertions aren't a bit speculative. Remove the barriers of frustration and California will resume the growth that propelled it to more than double in population in the last 30 years. That "speculation" is based on some pretty basic logical observation of historical fact.

Now, as for Japan, I realize you love the life there -- I have also been to Japan numerous times ... and I would slit my wrists rather than live in that density. It isn't a question of whether it CAN be done -- it is a question of the cost ... cost both financial and to the psyche and soul. I am expressing my opinion. I would hate California with 125 million. And especially since -- unlike Japan -- the concentration of the 125 million would be almost entirely along the narrow strip of coastline ... which Japan has nearly 6x more than what California has.

Originally Posted by mysticaltyger

Exactly. Nullgeo is actually an elitist. He wants fewer people in California because he perceives it's good for HIM, all the while professing to care about the poor & disadvantaged with token minimum wage laws that will do little to help people at the low end of the wage scale.

Labeling me an elitist in the sense you have here is one of the funniest attacks on me ever. I am an elitist ... but in an entirely different, antithetical way than you infer. The truth is: I want fewer people ---- period. Anywhere and everywhere.

By the way: also note I didn't profess anywhere here to support, or not, the minimum wage change. Again, your attack falls short of foundation.

And, finally, speaking of speculation, your opinion that the minimum wage increase is merely "token" and will not help people at the low end of the wage scale is about as wildly speculative as any in this thread. Simply put, you haven't distinguished yourself in any way as an economist sophisticated enough to do anymore than -- well, speculate, wildly. There are arguments on both sides made by real, highly credentialed economists. Your opinion doesn't exactly rise to establishing a finality to the questions.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by user_id

Have you run a business? I have a business and......guess what happens to most of the profit? I put it in tax sheltered investments that make me wealthier...but do little to help the overall economy.

I would never pay people the minimum wage, I think its dehumanizing, but an increase in $2 per hour in wages would just mean I'd have less to put in tax sheltered investments...it would have no impact on my businesses growth.

If a business is so marginally profitable that its going to go bankrupt due to this increase, well, let them go bankrupt....there are plenty of well run businesses that will service their customers.''

Allowing businesses to under pay their employees to the point that they are in poverty even after working full time is corporate welfare, these employees get supplemented with tax payer benefits because their employers are under-paying them.

...and there it is!

[nullgeo]

And, as long as I am on the keyboard, I might as well note for those suggesting that prices will rise as a result of the minimum wage increase -- as if to neutralize the effect -- gee, have prices ever risen at all since the last minimum wage rise? Or does that only happen when the wage goes up?

In other words: it's fine for prices to constantly creep and leap forward without wages keeping pace ... but dang!, when the worker-bees want some parity, that's just outta line!

As for the poor profitless business owners? Um, Google where increases in income and wealth have been going for the past 10, 20 years ... and in what proportion relative to the worker base. Ouch.

Now back to the silliness.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by nullgeo

And, as long as I am on the keyboard, I might as well note for those suggesting that prices will rise as a result of the minimum wage increase -- as if to neutralize the effect -- gee, have prices ever risen at all since the last minimum wage rise? Or does that only happen when the wage goes up?

In other words: it's fine for prices to constantly creep and leap forward without wages keeping pace ... but dang!, when the worker-bees want some parity, that's just outta line!

As for the poor profitless business owners? Um, Google where increases in income and wealth have been going for the past 10, 20 years ... and in what proportion relative to the worker base. Ouch.

Now back to the silliness.

Minimum wage is higher in Washington but most things are cheaper. There are some exception such as the price of meat and some wines but those items tend to come from farther away than they do in CA. Prices increase far more often than the minimum wage and it's "oh well such is life". But like you said, talk about wage increase and people sh*t eggrolls over it. Then there are those who will say "then get training to get a better job", all the while paying no attention to the fact that, the number of positions in most fields is far less than the people who would fill them. There was a story in the Bay Area a couple of months ago about there being more law graduates than there were jobs for them so they are, you guessed it, working in minimum wage jobs in most cases. Not the teenagers we keep hearing about. I have friends working in retail with MBA's because there are no positions for them. Now they have to try to pay student loans on those wages. And for good measure, let's screw them further into the ground by cutting food stamp benefits. When all this is in place, let's return to the age old business of blaming the vicitim for this as it takes the attention off of where it needs to be and allows those who oppose anything to help people to argue since now, in their minds, it's the victims fault. The one Achilles heel in their master plan is why they cannot answer why those places with higher minimum wage haven't seen the doom and gloom they stridently and tirelessly claim will happen.

[Mashi]

Originally Posted by user_id

an increase in $2 per hour in wages would just mean I'd have less to put in tax sheltered investments...it would have no impact on my businesses growth.

And at what point do you figure it's not worth risking your money and time to run a business with less and less returns? Businesses exist to make money. If you want charity, go join the Red Cross. A smart government would encourage small businesses, not handicap them and snuff them out. It's better to have 5 businesses paying 5 employees each $5/hour than have 1 business paying 10 employees $10/hour.

Honestly, why don't you and your commie cohorts go to one of your beloved socialist nations and live your lives there? You're clearly not Americans, as you stand for everything that's anti-American. Go be happy in your socialist utopias and leave America for those of us who aren't brainwashed Marxist dolts.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by Mashi

And at what point do you figure it's not worth risking your money and time to run a business with less and less returns? Businesses exist to make money. If you want charity, go join the Red Cross. A smart government would encourage small businesses, not handicap them and snuff them out. It's better to have 5 businesses paying 5 employees each $5/hour than have 1 business paying 10 employees $10/hour.

Honestly, why don't you and your commie cohorts go to one of your beloved socialist nations and live your lives there? You're clearly not Americans, as you stand for everything that's anti-American. Go be happy in your socialist utopias and leave America for those of us who aren't brainwashed Marxist dolts.

Your complete lack of intelligence shows in this post.

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by Mashi

And at what point do you figure it's not worth risking your money and time to run a business with less and less returns? Businesses exist to make money. If you want charity, go join the Red Cross. A smart government would encourage small businesses, not handicap them and snuff them out. It's better to have 5 businesses paying 5 employees each $5/hour than have 1 business paying 10 employees $10/hour.

Honestly, why don't you and your commie cohorts go to one of your beloved socialist nations and live your lives there? You're clearly not Americans, as you stand for everything that's anti-American. Go be happy in your socialist utopias and leave America for those of us who aren't brainwashed Marxist dolts.

History lesson here for us all today I guess from Mashi: America stands for "Business Uber Alles".
Heretofore I did not know that our founding fathers established this nation for the purpose of capitalist ventures -- at any cost.

I am curious, Mashi, about your business / entrepreneurial background and credentials. Care to fill the readers in a bit? User_id and I are / have been entrepreneurial businessmen. I am not certain of user's tenure as such -- but for me it was over 35 years. And I don't recall ever paying any of my employees minimum wage. Yet I was profitable enough to support the operations, employees, and my family. Somehow I managed to even become what some folks consider quite well off.

You?

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by nullgeo

History lesson here for us all today I guess from Mashi: America stands for "Business Uber Alles".
Heretofore I did not know that our founding fathers established this nation for the purpose of capitalist ventures -- at any cost.

I am curious, Mashi, about your business / entrepreneurial background and credentials. Care to fill the readers in a bit? User_id and I are / have been entrepreneurial businessmen. I am not certain of user's tenure as such -- but for me it was over 35 years. And I don't recall ever paying any of my employees minimum wage. Yet I was profitable enough to support the operations, employees, and my family. Somehow I managed to even become what some folks consider quite well off.

You?

[Mashi]

In-N-Out's not a franchise. McDonalds is.
In-N-Out has less than 300 locations. McDonalds has 34,000+.
In-N-Out serves 3 things. McDonalds serves 300.

LOL. Talk about backfiring. I'm actually embarrassed for you.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by Mashi

In-N-Out's not a franchise. McDonalds is.
In-N-Out has less than 300 locations. McDonalds has 34,000+.
In-N-Out serves 3 things. McDonalds serves 300.

LOL. Talk about backfiring. I'm actually embarrassed for you.

Uh huh. Notice everyone how this person, after attacking another person and not answering their point with a valid point of their own, still can't explain why those areas with higher minimum wage, which includes McD's and In N Out, haven't seen the doom and gloom his type keep promising. You may be embarrassed for me but your argument has resulting in humiliating failure for you.