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DANG! And here I thought it was because you still live there.
Seems you can't get your act together to leave. We did some years ago but not for the same reasons, I'm sure. There was just somewhere else we wanted to live more. So what's your problem?
Cant just pack up and move quickly, things have to be set in motion and put in place moving out of state. Im not going to rush into a less then ideal situation on a house out of state because I want out so bad. I hate it here but Im patient, I'll move when the time is right, dont you worry
the early to mid 90s was when CA went blue, started voting in these liberal communists and the state started its decline.
I wonder, like our old friend Joseph McCarthy, just who are these actual "communists" that were elected to the state legislature? Has this been investigated and proven, or are we merely assuming something here?
This above article is so packed full of the devastating statistics of the decline of the middle class in California due mostly to liberal oligarchs and their policies that I can only summarize a few highlights, or lowlights.
This won't be pleasant for the see no evil/hear no evil/ speak no evil monkeys that inhabit city data.
- In 2011 the state was home to 90 billionaires, 20 more than second place New York and more than twice as many as booming Texas. and yet...
-At the same time, the Golden State now suffers the highest level of poverty in the country—23.5 percent compared to 16 percent nationally—worse than long-term hard luck cases like Mississippi.
-Like medieval serfs, increasing numbers of Californians are downwardly mobile, and doing worse than their parents: native born Latinos actually have shorter lifespans than their parents, according to one recent report.
-Once you get outside the Bay Area, unemployment in many of the state’s largest counties—Sacramento, Los Angeles, Riverside, San Bernardino, Fresno, and Oakland—soars into the double digits. Indeed, among the 20 American cities with the highest unemployment rates, a remarkable 11 are in California, led by Merced’s mind-boggling 22 percent rate.
- Since the recession, California remains down something like 500,000 jobs, a 3.5 percent loss, while its Lone Star rival has boosted its employment by a remarkable 931,000, a gain of more than 9 percent.
- California’s once widely admired public schools were recently ranked near the absolute bottom in the country. Think about this: despite the state’s huge tech sector, California eighth graders scored 47th out of the 50 states in science testing
-As in medieval times, land ownership, particularly along the coast, has become increasingly difficult for those not in the upper class. 39 percent of working households in the Los Angeles metropolitan area spend more than half their income on housing, as do 35 percent in the San Francisco metro area—both higher than 31 percent in the New York area and well above the national rate of 24 percent. This feudalizing trend is likely to worsen due to draconian land regulations that will put the remaining stock of single family houses ever further out of reach, something that seems related to a reduction in child-bearing in the state.
So while you whistle past the graveyard cheering on your silly triumphalism of the past few months, your once great middle class state will continue down the road to feudalism, with you cheering it on, all the way.
In the interest of being fair and balanced, we also need to call out certain factions amongst the less liberal political spectrum. At least some of the lack of infrastructure investment is due to such elements not wanting the money spent. Also, we must face the fact that small business and big ag have long promoted a loose immigration policy due to their desire to exploit illegal aliens to cheapen the labor pool.
Doesn't the property get reassessed on inheritance? For example, if your parents bought their home in 1962 for $18K and are paying $1000/year prop tax, they die, you inherit it, market value is $500K, don't you pay like $5500/year or something like that?
The amount they will pay in property taxes is secondary to the fact that inheriting the house allows them entry into the housing market, which is now closed to the middle class in California's coastal metros. Paying 5500/year in property taxes on a paid-off or mostly-paid-off house is a lot easier than coming up with $100k down payment and then starting a 30 year mortgage with that tax level.
This above article is so packed full of the devastating statistics of the decline of the middle class in California due mostly to liberal oligarchs and their policies that I can only summarize a few highlights, or lowlights.
This won't be pleasant for the see no evil/hear no evil/ speak no evil monkeys that inhabit city data.
- In 2011 the state was home to 90 billionaires, 20 more than second place New York and more than twice as many as booming Texas. and yet...
-At the same time, the Golden State now suffers the highest level of poverty in the country—23.5 percent compared to 16 percent nationally—worse than long-term hard luck cases like Mississippi.
-Like medieval serfs, increasing numbers of Californians are downwardly mobile, and doing worse than their parents: native born Latinos actually have shorter lifespans than their parents, according to one recent report.
-Once you get outside the Bay Area, unemployment in many of the state’s largest counties—Sacramento, Los Angeles, Riverside, San Bernardino, Fresno, and Oakland—soars into the double digits. Indeed, among the 20 American cities with the highest unemployment rates, a remarkable 11 are in California, led by Merced’s mind-boggling 22 percent rate.
- Since the recession, California remains down something like 500,000 jobs, a 3.5 percent loss, while its Lone Star rival has boosted its employment by a remarkable 931,000, a gain of more than 9 percent.
- California’s once widely admired public schools were recently ranked near the absolute bottom in the country. Think about this: despite the state’s huge tech sector, California eighth graders scored 47th out of the 50 states in science testing
-As in medieval times, land ownership, particularly along the coast, has become increasingly difficult for those not in the upper class. 39 percent of working households in the Los Angeles metropolitan area spend more than half their income on housing, as do 35 percent in the San Francisco metro area—both higher than 31 percent in the New York area and well above the national rate of 24 percent. This feudalizing trend is likely to worsen due to draconian land regulations that will put the remaining stock of single family houses ever further out of reach, something that seems related to a reduction in child-bearing in the state.
So while you whistle past the graveyard cheering on your silly triumphalism of the past few months, your once great middle class state will continue down the road to feudalism, with you cheering it on, all the way.
The question of the statistics' accuracy you cite aside, the vigor with which you cite them is impressive. '^)
You're right... I give up. I'll move back to WA state right away. *Kidding*. Having lived in the Willamette Valley in OR and WA State (Baring, Bellingham, Olympia, Seattle and Bainbridge Island and Camano Island all have their charms, and I've lived in all those places... my friends up there live everywhere from the deepest 'rain shadow' woods on the Olympic Peninsula to the islands up by the Strait of Juan de Fuca to Spokane... I'm well aware of the 'Stop Californicating Oregon/Washington' movements (and the 'two price' Real Estate lists in much of the coastal PNW- one for buyers from CA and the other list for everyone else)...
I'm also well aware of NW folks' often well-founded suspicions and opinions of CA residents with whom they have dealt directly... PNW vs. CA has all been well-documented. Try buying a nice home on the water on Vashon or Bainbridge Island... prices remind you of anywhere? Try making a good enough living in Sequim or Port Angeles to pay for that 'affordable' waterfront home... desirability isn't always linked to availability in an inverse let alone causal way. If I can make 150k annually in an IT job in Seattle and live on Bainbridge Island 35 minutes from my job, should I expect to pay the same for a given coastal property as I would in a coastal location almost out of reach of that job in Port Angeles? About 42 percent of the terrestrial coastline is publicly owned and accessible land in CA... the CA coastal housing market deserves no subsidizing by reducing this access, no matter what the upward economic pressure... there are other ways to address that issue without prying public-access coastal lands from the CA public's grasp.
What is your intention with this screed? To contribute to the co-dependednt flame war/circular firing squad between CA haters and CA lovers? To point out the myopathy some CA residents have towards their state? WA, OR, etc. all have way too many folks with that attitude too... as I've had the chance to observe firsthand over the decades.
Are you hoping to demoralize 'the opposition'? Is it CA you hate, or Californians? Both? I understand your argument... I even agree with some of your points and entirely with your obvious exasperation with some of our more obnoxious, smugger-than-thou CA boosters.
Or is this a reality check? If it is, and it seems this is your reason for posting, sincere but vitriol-driven delivery aside, thanks for your perspective. I think I'll stay here in CA and do what I can to help the CA economy by helping to drive it, help CA's many misguided regulations by doing what I can on the local, county and state levels to have my and my community's voice heard.
Some of us are just as concerned with these issues in CA as people in PNW for example are with their own states' issues... the rest, the 'dead-weight' citizenry who treat their states and their communities like hotel lobbies where everyone else is there to serve them so they can just enjoy the elevator ride without any heavy lifting are going to be that way no matter what... and those of us who really care about outcomes and not just process need to be dedicated to working harder than they can sling the apathy around so we have a chance to actually get common-sense stuff done in our states.
Some CA laws suck- and some actually do what they are supposed to. Deciding where one fits in the process to affect how one's state deals with the issues you list is every resident's right and responsibility- one that most residents of *any* state will never recognize let alone rise to... there's more than one way to be 'committed' to the CA Asylum... T'was ever thus. '^)
Last edited by threepounduniverse; 10-08-2013 at 11:11 PM..
The question of the statistics' accuracy you cite aside, the vigor with which you cite them is impressive. '^)
You're right... I give up. I'll move back to WA state right away. *Kidding*. Having lived in the Willamette Valley in OR and WA State (Baring, Bellingham, Olympia, Seattle and Bainbridge Island and Camano Island all have their charms, and I've lived in all those places... my friends up there live everywhere from the deepest 'rain shadow' woods on the Olympic Peninsula to the islands up by the Strait of Juan de Fuca to Spokane... I'm well aware of the 'Stop Californicating Oregon/Washington' movements (and the 'two price' Real Estate lists in much of the coastal PNW- one for buyers from CA and the other list for everyone else)... I'm also well aware of NW folks' often well-founded suspicions and opinions of CA residents with whom they have dealt directly... PNW vs. CA has all been well-documented. Try buying a nice home on the water on Vashon or Bainbridge Island... prices remind you of anywhere? Try making a good enough living in Sequim or Port Angeles to pay for that 'affordable' waterfront home... desirability isn't always linked to availability in an inverse let alone causal way. If I can make 150k annually in an IT job in Seattle and live on Bainbridge Island 35 minutes from my job, should I expect to pay the same for a given coastal property as I would in a coastal location almost out of reach of that job in Port Angeles?
What is your intention with this screed? To point out the myopathy some CA residents have towards their state? WA, OR, etc. all have that way too many folks with that attitude too... as I've had the chance to observe firsthand over the decades.
Are you hoping to demoralize 'the opposition'? Is it CA you hate, or Californians? Both? I understand your argument... I even agree with some of your points and entirely with your obvious exasperation with some of our more obnoxious, smugger-than-thou CA boosters.
Or is this a reality check? If it is, and it seems this is your reason for posting, sincere but vitriol-driven delivery aside, thanks for your perspective. I think I'll stay here in CA and do what I can to help the CA economy by helping to drive it, help CA's many misguided regulations by doing what I can on the local, county and state levels to have my and my community's voice heard.
Some of us are just as concerned with these issues in CA as people in PNW for example are with their own states' issues... the rest, the 'dead-weight' citizenry who treat their states and their communities like hotel lobbies where everyone else is there to serve them so they can just enjoy the elevator ride without any heavy lifting are going to be that way no matter what... and those of us who really care about outcomes and not just process need to be dedicated to working harder than they slack to get common-sense stuff done in our states. There's more than one way to be 'committed' to the CA Asylum... T'was ever thus. '^)
Hi Charles -- the post you responded to by Kanhawk was him/her quoting an article by Joel Kotkin -- not Kanhawk's own research / perspective. Kanhawk is a conservative living on the Hood Canal in Washington, if his profile line is correct. I believe s/he moved there from California sometime back.
Kotkin has invested himself and his career reputation in being an oracle of urban doom. As Daniel Patrick Moynihan once said: "Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, just not their own facts." Kotkin is entitled to his opinionated scenario. And he has a following even in academia. But his opinions and prognostications also remain very controversial among many excellent urban-planners and academicians.
It is worth noting that Kotkin, while professing to be a Democrat, which delights conservative doomsday lovers no end, is largely supported in his work by the Cato Institute: a Libertarian think-tank.
Personally, I find the term "Libertarian Think"[anything] to be an oxymoron.
What is your intention with this screed? To contribute to the co-dependent flame war/circular firing squad between CA haters and CA lovers? To point out the myopathy some CA residents have towards their state?
Are you hoping to demoralize 'the opposition'? Is it CA you hate, or Californians? Both? I understand your argument... I even agree with some of your points and entirely with your obvious exasperation with some of our more obnoxious, smugger-than-thou CA boosters.
Or is this a reality check? If it is, and it seems this is your reason for posting, sincere but vitriol-driven delivery aside, thanks for your perspective. I think I'll stay here in CA and do what I can to help the CA economy by helping to drive it, help CA's many misguided regulations by doing what I can on the local, county and state levels to have my and my community's voice heard.
Good questions, although you notice that the OP doesn't answer any of them, nor does h/she address anyone else's questions. It does make one wonder what the purpose of threads such as these are. There's obviously a LOT of anger and resentment involved; it would be interesting to find out why.
Location: Overlooking the vineyards, olive groves, cattle and horses in the hills of San Miguel CA
167 posts, read 336,271 times
Reputation: 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo
Hi Charles -- the post you responded to by Kanhawk was him/her quoting an article by Joel Kotkin -- not Kanhawk's own research / perspective. Kanhawk is a conservative living on the Hood Canal in Washington, if his profile line is correct. I believe s/he moved there from California sometime back.
Kotkin has invested himself and his career reputation in being an oracle of urban doom. As Daniel Patrick Moynihan once said: "Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, just not their own facts." Kotkin is entitled to his opinionated scenario. And he has a following even in academia. But his opinions and prognostications also remain very controversial among many excellent urban-planners and academicians.
It is worth noting that Kotkin, while professing to be a Democrat, which delights conservative doomsday lovers no end, is largely supported in his work by the Cato Institute: a Libertarian think-tank.
Personally, I find the term "Libertarian Think"[anything] to be an oxymoron.
Thanks for clarifying... and DPM was right.
Yeah, I used the PNW as an example because of that location in Kanhawk's profile. Kotkin does indeed work in oxymoronic methods of tilting the 'accuracy table' of available information to his own corner. 'Lies, damn lies, and statistics' being what they are, it's all too easy to omit crucial information and context, and some, like Kotkin are so artful that they can be considered pros at doing so... and as you say, it's funny how people who do this parsing for a living like urban planners and some of the more perceptive academics around these parts have a distinctly different take on things.
If I wanted to read Kotkin I'd read Kotkin elsewhere... like the vaguely propagandist Cato Institute website. There's a difference between being a shill and a sage... Kotkin may never figure that out. His points are sometimes very good, but what they mean in light of his version of The Facts becomes suspect and then decays into a Useful Idiot thesis... 'Don't confuse me with the facts, I've made up my mind'. '^)
Yeah, I used the PNW as an example because of that location in Kanhawk's profile. Kotkin does indeed work in oxymoronic methods of tilting the 'accuracy table' of available information to his own corner. 'Lies, damn lies, and statistics' being what they are, it's all too easy to omit crucial information and context, and some, like Kotkin are so artful that they can be considered pros at doing so... and as you say, it's funny how people who do this parsing for a living like urban planners and some of the more perceptive academics around these parts have a distinctly different take on things.
If I wanted to read Kotkin I'd read Kotkin elsewhere... like the vaguely propagandist Cato Institute website. There's a difference between being a shill and a sage... Kotkin may never figure that out. His points are sometimes very good, but what they mean in light of his version of The Facts becomes suspect and then decays into a Useful Idiot thesis... 'Don't confuse me with the facts, I've made up my mind'. '^)
Very good summation, Charles. Including your recognition that some of Kotkin's points are quite good ... In fact, I agree with the premise of this thread's title: we are re-entering a feudal culture. The truth of that, however, is much deeper than Kotkin's self-promotional pandering. The whole world has only escaped such domination for a few hundred years of recorded human history ... and of those "freedom years" only since the end of WWII have the gates really been open. And now they are shutting hard, once more ... returning to the oppressive state in process for about the previous 10,000 years. There's nothing unique about California in this.
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CA Self-Selecting Exodus
