California may ban "Orca Whale Shows" (retired, good)

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by thecooler

My impression of the primary reasons that Orca should not be in captivity is the social/emotional aspect, and captivity causing health problems and shortened life span. The scene that made me cry was the mother being separated from her baby and her crying/screaming for 2 days nonstop. What i didn't know about Orca before seeing the movie is that each pod has its own language-they cant talk to other pods and that the social center of their brain is much larger then ours and they have more social needs then humans. The parks just throw together orca from different parts of the world and so they can't communicate, and the footage of young Tilikum getting bitten and scratched by the older female orca who couldn't talk to him was heartbreaking.

Whether the ban gets approved or not, I will not be going to any park that has orca in captivity. if i want to see Orca, i will take a whale watching boat and see them in nature.

I remember that, now. He was bullied by the other whales when he arrived, and then shunned. For all we know, he could have been suffering Post-Traumatic Stress. Kind of seems like it. Poor fishie.

[BeauCharles]

I've never thought those park shows were right. I remember visiting my older sister who was living in San Diego when I was 12 years old. She and her husband took us to Seaworld and the first think that popped in my head was "That looks cruel - the tank is so small". When a 12 year old can get it I don't understand why it took so many more years for legislation like this to start.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

Thanks. I didn't see the entire film, so I didn't know there was a claim that they weren't feeding the whale properly. I thought its problem was more in the realm of psychological trauma from being confined , and I forget what other issues there were. Something about how he was caught and transferred, I forget.

The collection of Killer Whales back when he was captured was anything but pleasant. However, most of those people and organizations aren't around anymore who did the collecting either. It's really a double-edged sword; on the one hand, you have these beautiful intelligent creatures in a captive environment. On the other hand, until the public was able to see them up close, Killer Whales were thought of as dangerous and they were commonly hunted for sport. This is the same thing that happened with other animals in zoos as well. Once people become familiar with something, they feel a stronger urge to want to protect it. There was a quote Sea World used to use that went like; "For in the end we will protect only what we love, we will love only what we understand and we will understand only what we are taught". To this end, I also believe that Killer Whales should no longer be used as entertainment in shows. I think it not only diminishes what these animals are but it grossly anthropomorphisizses what they truly are. Having said that, I am a supporter of zoos and aquariums in a general sense. So while I support the part of the bill that would stop shows, I am not certain about the halt of breeding clause although perhaps that could be a good idea but I won't go into why that is here.

[Gentoo]

The scene that made me cry was the mother being separated from her baby and her crying/screaming for 2 days nonstop.

This part I can vouch for. That was Kasatka (the mom) and Takara. Kasatka went ballistic when they were removing Takara. It should be stated however that Takara was no longer a calf and was sexually mature at the time. Nonetheless, mothers and doughters often remain together for life. From what I am told, Kasatka had to be sedated but I don't know about that for sure. Kasatka is still in the San Diego park. She was the whale who dragged Ken Peters (Pete) down to the bottom. They showed a clip of that in that movie and I was there, in that show when it happened. I made the first emergency call.

The parks just throw together orca from different parts of the world

Before I go into my opinion on this, I do need to say that two of the whales are the offspring of whales from two different populations. Orkid here in San Diego and Kayla I believe her name is in Texas. Their father was a large male from the British Columbia area. Orkids mom, her name was Kandu (technically Kandu 5) was the whale that died a little over 20 years ago after having accidentally broken here jaw while raking/biting another whale who flinched. That whale is still in SD, her name is Corky. Kandu was from the Iceland region. Orkid's half sister's mother was also from the North Atlantic. Can't remember her name though. Here's the thing, it's been speculated that Killer Whales may be more than one species. The Atlantic animals are decidedly smaller than the North Pacific ones. Orkid appears to be sterile. Numerous attempts at both breeding her and AI have failed. Kayla is a mom though. So I agree, we should not be throwing them all together. We just don't know enough. In San Diego, all the whales are Icelandic except for Corky and Shouka. The latter came to SW from what used to be Marine World in the Bay Area and was captured in the area Corky was.

the footage of young Tilikum getting bitten and scratched by the older female orca who couldn't talk to him was heartbreaking.

This is actually normal as in Killer Whale society, females are dominant and frequently terrorize the males.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

I remember that, now. He was bullied by the other whales when he arrived, and then shunned. For all we know, he could have been suffering Post-Traumatic Stress. Kind of seems like it. Poor fishie.

They are not fish!!!

This happened with numerous young male whales over the years. We had one male in San Diego that was brought to the park because his natural mother shunned him. Young males seems to be pushed out to the fringes at a young age so this may be a natural thing. however the young male I mentioned was a bit younger than normal for that to happen.

[Curmudgeon]

One of my endearing memories as a child growing up in Newport Beach was being out on a private but good-sized fishing boat. I was actually at the wheel following a heading when the owner came tearing into the pilot house and grabbed the wheel from me and cut the engines. At the time I was probably seven and too short to see out.

I went down to the deck to discover we were in the middle of a goodly sized pod of orkas. They were truly beautiful animals and several scratched their sides on the boat which allowed us to reach out and "pet" them. From that day on I never looked at "killer whales" the same way again. They seemed positively friendly.

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

They are not fish!!!

Yes, I know, but "Poor mammalie" or "Poor whaley" doesn't quite have that ring to it. Besides, the film was called "Blackfish". Cut a person some slack, will ya?

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

One of my endearing memories as a child growing up in Newport Beach was being out on a private but good-sized fishing boat. I was actually at the wheel following a heading when the owner came tearing into the pilot house and grabbed the wheel from me and cut the engines. At the time I was probably seven and too short to see out.

I went down to the deck to discover we were in the middle of a goodly sized pod of orkas. They were truly beautiful animals and several scratched their sides on the boat which allowed us to reach out and "pet" them. From that day on I never looked at "killer whales" the same way again. They seemed positively friendly.

Where the hell have you been? Good to see you back.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

Yes, I know, but "Poor mammalie" or "Poor whaley" doesn't quite have that ring to it. Besides, the film was called "Blackfish". Cut a person some slack, will ya?

LOL Ok, ok, you have a point

[Think4Yourself]

It will never happen. One guy wants to ban it and really it is just an attempt to get his name out there while there is too much money to be made from animal shows for the companies not to lobby the heck out of the legislature to block his proposal. I do get tired of people not understanding the difference between a proposal (which just about anyone can make) and something which actually stands a chance of passing.