The Monterey Shale could create 2.3 million new jobs & Boost the state's GDP by as much as 14%

[TrueTimbers]

Originally Posted by nslander

Nevermind.

U.S. officials cut estimate of recoverable Monterey Shale oil by 96%*-*Los Angeles Times#

And another one::

Dream of U.S. energy independence was just revised away - Outside the Box - MarketWatch

It was never there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry to rub the noses of the pro fracking folks in California in this giant pile of Big oil crap......

But are you guys feeling like a fish that took the bait hook line and sinker?....

Big oil plays up the numbers to get them in the door... Few jobs, few tax dollars, lots of environmental damage for the citizens to clean up after they took the little money and ran..

Likely none of the Shale plays, will pan out as they claim...

Next time... Might trust big oil just a little bit less, before you buy their bill of goods hook line and sinker..

[CarawayDJ]

Originally Posted by TrueTimbers

And another one::

Dream of U.S. energy independence was just revised away - Outside the Box - MarketWatch

It was never there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry to rub the noses of the pro fracking folks in California in this giant pile of Big oil crap......

But are you guys feeling like a fish that took the bait hook line and sinker?....

Big oil plays up the numbers to get them in the door... Few jobs, few tax dollars, lots of environmental damage for the citizens to clean up after they took the little money and ran..

Likely none of the Shale plays, will pan out as they claim...

Next time... Might trust big oil just a little bit less, before you buy their bill of goods hook line and sinker..

Not to doubt your info and most definitely not to defend big oil, but why would oil companies want to spend all that money going after nothing? Are they really putting that much effort into this or is it more talk than action? They aren't so dumb that they will expend too much effort going after something that isn't there. There are too many areas known to be good to waste money chasing a ghost.

[slo1318]

Originally Posted by CarawayDJ

Not to doubt your info and most definitely not to defend big oil, but why would oil companies want to spend all that money going after nothing? Are they really putting that much effort into this or is it more talk than action? They aren't so dumb that they will expend too much effort going after something that isn't there. There are too many areas known to be good to waste money chasing a ghost.

They're making insane money off of US drilling right now. Not just the oil companies but all the support companies, land/mineral owners.

[CarawayDJ]

Originally Posted by slo1318

They're making insane money off of US drilling right now. Not just the oil companies but all the support companies, land/mineral owners.

That is understood. What I'm wondering is if the oil companies are really trying hard to go after the Monterey Shale. If the reports are accurate that there isn't much there, I can't see them investing much time or money going after it. There are too many places they know are going to be lucrative to waste their money elsewhere. They can afford to hire the best and brightest geologists.

[TrueTimbers]

Originally Posted by CarawayDJ

That is understood. What I'm wondering is if the oil companies are really trying hard to go after the Monterey Shale. If the reports are accurate that there isn't much there, I can't see them investing much time or money going after it. There are too many places they know are going to be lucrative to waste their money elsewhere. They can afford to hire the best and brightest geologists.

Good questions! My guess, is to break down policy, to grease the skids for cheap easy access to the peoples natural resources.

[eccotecc]

I've recently come back from a trip to Pennsylvania. I mention this because there are huge oil and gas deposits in the Marcellus shale fields. After speaking with local people, I found out that very little has materialized as promised. Pennsylvania residents' taxes have increased, the high paying jobs are going to the employees that are temporarily brought in that work for the oil companies and various support industries. The temporary employees are moved from one job site to the next, so there aren't the jobs people think they'll be getting. Waste water disposal is a big issue. On youtube you can see water being lit and burning from the natural gas released into wells. The highways and roads are being torn up by all the heavy trucks and equipment being sent to rural locations. There are numerous issues that impact local residents and states where fracking is going on.

I'm not some liberal tree hugging, humus eating person, but what I'm relating is the factual truth that most people never find out about until it's too late.

[CarawayDJ]

Originally Posted by eccotecc

I've recently come back from a trip to Pennsylvania. I mention this because there are huge oil and gas deposits in the Marcellus shale fields. After speaking with local people, I found out that very little has materialized as promised. Pennsylvania residents' taxes have increased, the high paying jobs are going to the employees that are temporarily brought in that work for the oil companies and various support industries. The temporary employees are moved from one job site to the next, so there aren't the jobs people think they'll be getting. Waste water disposal is a big issue. On youtube you can see water being lit and burning from the natural gas released into wells. The highways and roads are being torn up by all the heavy trucks and equipment being sent to rural locations. There are numerous issues that impact local residents and states where fracking is going on.

I'm not some liberal tree hugging, humus eating person, but what I'm relating is the factual truth that most people never find out about until it's too late.

As a general rule of thumb it is probably fair to say that advocates for anything will over promise and opponents of anything will paint an overly negative picture.

[eccotecc]

Caraway,

I truly respect your opinion, but how do you deal with the facts as they've been outlined?

[CarawayDJ]

Originally Posted by eccotecc

Caraway,

I truly respect your opinion, but how do you deal with the facts as they've been outlined?

Hmmm.... I can only take a wild guess. I assume you are referring to your recount of PA. I'm wary of fracking myself. I can't say I'm opposed to it, but definitely support more oversight and control. These are my uninformed (aka somewhat ignorant) thoughts:

1. "Pennsylvania residents' taxes have increased". Was there an actual promise that no state taxes would increase if fracking was allowed? That would seem unlikely. Is it even reasonable to expect fracking to offset the need to increase any taxes statewide? That too seems unlikely. This is not to say that the spin machine didn't allow people to draw this conclusion. A very plausible scenario is that the influx of people caused home values to increase and this resulted in higher property taxes. It is true however that PA has been specifically criticized for not extracting more revenue out of fracking operations.

2. "the high paying jobs are going to the employees that are temporarily brought in that work for the oil companies and various support industries. The temporary employees are moved from one job site to the next, so there aren't the jobs people think they'll be getting". I can believe this to an extent. It was likely over-promised. That said, there has to be some permanent jobs too. Then again, can any such job truly be permanent? It only lasts so long. Ditto for any job related to natural resource extraction.

3. "Waste water disposal is a big issue". Don't doubt that it's an issue. The question is whether or not it's an issue they are successfully dealing with.

4. "On youtube you can see water being lit and burning from the natural gas released into wells". This is called migration. This occurs naturally even where no fracking is involved too. Methane naturally tries to rise and in some areas it does get into the well water. That said, fracking is known to increase the amount of migration that occurs. This is a perfect example of why more control and oversight is required. At the very least inform and compensate residents. I assume there is a technology solution here too (water treatment). Again, compensate residents for this. Residents should not be surprised by this and they should be paid for it if it occurs.

5. "The highways and roads are being torn up by all the heavy trucks and equipment being sent to rural locations. There are numerous issues that impact local residents and states where fracking is going on". This is not limited to fracking. It describes a whole host of similar issues and kinda falls into the NIMBY argument. Before I moved from Temecula, CA the big NIMBY issue was trying to block a rock quarry. Same arguments.

In a nutshell, I assume proponents over promised and opponents are painting an overly negative picture. I think the public can make overly optimistic assumptions about the economic windfall that accompanies any industry moving into an area. People have dreams of riches that aren't founded in logic. A dental assistant living in such an area isn't suddenly going to get a 50% raise. There may be more dentist offices opening and more employment for dental assistants, but that only translates into higher salaries if demand exceeds supply. Salaries will rise according to how out of whack that is. In ND it got really out of whack. I can easily imagine residents thinking their lifestyles were going to significantly improve because of fracking or anything else coming to town and being disappointed accordingly. Residents are thinking household economics and the city/town planners, Chamber of Commerce, etc. are thinking a boom at the macro level.

[bad apples]

When all our drinking water is contaminated it wont matter if you have a job or not.