Unfortunately, California continues to lead nation in job growth (crime, go bankrupt)

[nmnita]

Originally Posted by things and stuff

Yeah, sure.

Meanwhile, white collar middle class families continue to leave in those drives we all hear about. Every time I work in Texas (IT consulting), I find that a large percentage of the professionals are from California. They leave for reasons I've stated.

Yet, poor people move to California all the time. It's happening. Don't get me wrong, a lot of what hurts California is ironically what makes California great. I really appreciate the innovative spirit and compassion for the poor. The university system in California is top-notch. The reality is that other states are simply undercutting California much like they did the mid-west.

I'm very much rooting for California. I think the things right-wingers say are blown out of proportion but I also acknowledge things from a pragmatic standpoint and would hate to see it go the direction of Detroit.

I don't think it is headed in the direction of Detroit, but there should be a lot of people concerned about the future of California. Housing wise it is out of the range, as some have said for the average middle class family.

Lower income people keep moving in, many illegally, because they think the streets are paved in gold, like our ancestors thought America was. The difference, our ancestors knew to make it work, you needed to learn the language and you needed to be willing to make it on your own, without expecting anything from the government.

California still has a lot going for it, but there are serious problems; remember, everything runs in cycles; we are a mobile country and the golden state today could be the rocky state 10 years from now. The Midwest and the south might be the places people want to call home. Texas, as you said, is already drawing people from all over the country, specially from California.

[oldtrader]

Lets remember due to the big population of California, they are doing any better and often worse than a lot of other states when we go to a percentage of increase on a per capita basis. Lots of people, bigger increase than a state like Montana with few people. Montana actually added more jobs on a per capita basis. Texas added way more jobs than California with a lot less people in the state. California would have to add a lot more jobs, to be improving as much as many other states.

Also remember there are two different polls taken as to how much the jobs are increasing. One shows California losing jobs, and one shows they gained jobs.

Job Growth by State | Department of Numbers

Which one is telling the truth? That is the real question that needs answered.

[oldtrader]

And yet, as the census data shows, California has more middle income households than the national average.

California has a lot more people in the state than other states. Of course they have more middle class households than the national average in a state.

But the biggest factor is, they have the highest number of poverty stricken people in the nation. That is both in total numbers and also the big telling factor, is a higher percentage of the population is living in poverty in California than any other state. Only 12% of the total people in the nation, but spend 1/3rd of all federal poverty funds. That shows just how bad it is in California when such a high percentage of the population is living in poverty.

[user_id]

Originally Posted by oldtrader

California has a lot more people in the state than other states. Of course they have more middle class households than the national average in a state.

California has more middle income households as a percent of households than the national average.

[things and stuff]

Originally Posted by user_id

California has more middle income households as a percent of households than the national average.

You're using median incomes. $38k for a single person and $70k for a family of 4 may be middle class in much of America. It is not reasonably middle class in Los Angeles, SF Bay, Sacramento proper, or San Diego.

Get real.

Having said that, there's plenty of middle class folks still in California. The point is that many are leaving and are being replaced by lesser educated and lesser skilled folks.

[user_id]

Originally Posted by things and stuff

You're using median incomes. $38k for a single person and $70k for a family of 4 may be middle class in much of America.

No, I'm not using median incomes and my comments said nothing of the "middle-class" and for a good reason, namely, outside of sociology its a largely used in a meaningless political context.

In any case, as can be seen by looking at the census data, California has a higher ratio of middle-income households compared to the nation as a whole. This is not what you'd see if California was attracting predominately low income households and/or middle-income households were leaving.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by oldtrader

California has a lot more people in the state than other states. Of course they have more middle class households than the national average in a state.

But the biggest factor is, they have the highest number of poverty stricken people in the nation. That is both in total numbers and also the big telling factor, is a higher percentage of the population is living in poverty in California than any other state. Only 12% of the total people in the nation, but spend 1/3rd of all federal poverty funds. That shows just how bad it is in California when such a high percentage of the population is living in poverty.

It really doesn't show any such thing. Just the opposite. It shows how many people so desire living in California that they come here when they shouldn't, and won't leave when they should.

It is really even a kind of compassionate compliment that the world's 7th best economy sees fit to lend a helping hand by sharing some of its wealth with these less fortunate who refuse to do what humanity has always done: follow opportunity where it can be found when you need to find it.

[oldtrader]

Lets look at the facts, not your claims. You say California has more middle class people than any other state. But you are not taking the real factors into consideration. There are 50 states, that have been rated for which are the best states to make a living, based on median incomes after adjusting for cost of living, taxes, etc.

Note California rates clear down at 29th place. What you keep claiming about more middle class people than in other states, you are not taking into consideration the true facts that effect where the middle class are better off. Note that states such as Washington, Texas, Utah, Colorado, Wyoming, Arizona, and even places like Georgia, Missouri, Michigan, and even Florida, beat out California.

NOTE CALIFORNIA IS CLEAR DOWN AT 29TH PLACE AS A QUALITY PLACE TO LIVE AND EARN A LIVING.

Best and Worst States to Make a Living 2013

Also take into consideration a lot of people are looking at the total factors that make a place desirable to live and make a living, and those are states that California middle class is moving to.

The middle class leaving the state, is one big reason that California has turned into the state with the biggest poverty problem, and use up 1/3rd of all federal poverty funds. The middle class if fleeing the state, and being replaced by the poor people often illegal immigrants.

Here are the states with high out migration. This out migration is American Citizens that are moving between states. It does not cover immigration both legal and illegal moving from outside the country. Where people are going, and incomes are rising, are Right To Work States. People are leaving the states without Right To Work Laws, for a better life.

Seven Top-Ranking States For Cost of Living-Adjusted Disposable Income in 2012 All Have Right to Work Laws - National Institute for Labor Relations Research

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by oldtrader

Lets look at the facts, not your claims. You say California has more middle class people than any other state. But you are not taking the real factors into consideration. There are 50 states, that have been rated for which are the best states to make a living, based on median incomes after adjusting for cost of living, taxes, etc.

Note California rates clear down at 29th place. What you keep claiming about more middle class people than in other states, you are not taking into consideration the true facts that effect where the middle class are better off. Note that states such as Washington, Texas, Utah, Colorado, Wyoming, Arizona, and even places like Georgia, Missouri, Michigan, and even Florida, beat out California.

NOTE CALIFORNIA IS CLEAR DOWN AT 29TH PLACE AS A QUALITY PLACE TO LIVE AND EARN A LIVING.

Best and Worst States to Make a Living 2013

Also take into consideration a lot of people are looking at the total factors that make a place desirable to live and make a living, and those are states that California middle class is moving to.

The middle class leaving the state, is one big reason that California has turned into the state with the biggest poverty problem, and use up 1/3rd of all federal poverty funds. The middle class if fleeing the state, and being replaced by the poor people often illegal immigrants.

Here are the states with high out migration. This out migration is American Citizens that are moving between states. It does not cover immigration both legal and illegal moving from outside the country. Where people are going, and incomes are rising, are Right To Work States. People are leaving the states without Right To Work Laws, for a better life.

Seven Top-Ranking States For Cost of Living-Adjusted Disposable Income in 2012 All Have Right to Work Laws - National Institute for Labor Relations Research

So, if we were to accept the ranking you report above, California would be, at worst, middle-of-the-pack in the world's strongest, most successful economy. (In spite of it being ranked 7th greatest in the world all on its own, and by far the number one contributor to the overall world number one economy.)

And this would represent a failure and crisis?

Who knew, eh

[oldtrader]

So, if we were to accept the ranking you report above, California would be, at worst, middle-of-the-pack in the world's strongest, most successful economy. (In spite of it being ranked 7th greatest in the world all on its own, and by far the number one contributor to the overall world number one economy.)

Due to the sheer number of people living in California, California is one of the biggest economies in the world.

California is now the official sanctuary state in the nation, for illegal immigrants. Governor Brown has just welcomed all the illegals to California, and the Mexican President says that California is the other Mexico. California is becoming being swarmed over by illegal immigrants, and the Governor has gotten bills through, to make them welcome, with drivers licenses, and able to partake in poverty programs.

On the other hand, the middle class if moving out of California and rapidly being replaced by poor people. This is the factor you don't seem to understand. Hispanics are the biggest population group in California, and within a short time, Hispanics will be half and more of the total population.

You can't seem to understand, the middle class moving out and the poor moving in, have made California the poverty state it is turning into. Already 1/3rd of all people living in poverty in the entire nation are living in California or at least the poor population in California, use up 1/3rd of all poverty funds in the United States. Since 1990, more Californians have left the state, than people moving in from other states. The only thing that has kept the California population from declining in numbers except for 2 years in the last 14, has been immigrants entering the state from other countries with the majority of those entering illegally.

As to GDP we have to consider, that every time someone spends a dollar within the state, the GDP counts it. It also counts imports and exports, so as California has all those ports sitting on the Pacific Ocean, California should be by far the highest GDP. Due to the huge population of California, the GDP should be the highest. Convert it to a per capita basis, and California is only the 12th biggest GDP.

Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitor sites is not allowed

And just think, the USA is only the 14th highest GDP in the world.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat.../2004rank.html

Growth in the GDP by state shows California is behind all but 5 states in the states that make up the Far West, Plains, Rocky Mountain, and South West as of 2013 which is the last year with official figures. In the past, California lead the nation in growth of GDP, no longer due to the changes taking place in the state.

BEA: News Release: GDP by State