the "yes means yes" law

[Iaskwhy]

Originally Posted by cephalopede

You reject the idea that consent should be freely and clearly given, where neither party involved has any doubt about the consent, or their partner's ability to consent.

Gosh, I hate to quote the same website again, but.



If you (both the specific and generic) aren't concerned with obtaining clear consent from your partners, don't have sex.

I reject the idea that implied consent isn't sufficient and that people who have been drinking or using drugs (of their own will) cannot consent. If someone doesn't say "no" or "stop", isn't unconsious, is of able mind (age, mental handicaps or something like that, I'm not talking about drinking or drugs), isn't being forced and isn't being threatened then it is fine to procede. If you procede anyway at that point it is rape, otherwise it isn't. If someone literally cannot say the word "no" and all of the other conditions are met then I have very little sympathy for them.

[cephalopede]

Originally Posted by Iaskwhy

I have very little sympathy for them.

That much is clear, thank you.

[Iaskwhy]

Originally Posted by cephalopede

That much is clear, thank you.

What's your point? What is so crazy about me not having sympathy for someone who simply doesn't say "no" for whatever reason and then tries to go on to ruin someone elses life by charging them with rape? Those people disgust me.

[highlife2]

Cal tech is going to have to fence off their campus and helicopter in the students. I believe JPL already has a compound wall around it. Kinda scary when you think about it.

[highlife2]

Originally Posted by Iaskwhy

You never answered any of my questions.

During college did you have sexual relations with a single girl/guy? Did you ask someone explicitly for consent every time you have had sex with someone even if you had been dating for an extensive amount of time? During your college years was there never a time that you hooked up with someone while you or they had been drinking or under the influence of something? How would you feel if you had what was in your mind at the time obviously consentual sex with someone and the next day they decided that they didn't really want to have sex with you so they charged you with rape? How would your life be now? Would that be fair or just? This law is making it much easier for that to happen to college age guys like you once were. Don't you have any compassion?

Unless you were perfect or didn't have sex with anyone, then you would have raped someone under this law. I would venture a guess that you were a virgin or gay and you harbored resentment toward the heterosexual guys who were getting lucky and you seek to punish them. If you weren't perfect, then you are a hypocrite.

So you essentially have three options.

1) You were absolutely perfect, asked for affirmative consent every single time and during every single different sexual act. If you claim this, I think that you are a liar.

2) You were a virgin and jealous.

3) You are a hypocrite.

I did not have much sex in college and I think this law is stupid. I realize that the reason I did not have much sex was my own fault for having unrealistic standards. I thank God I corrected that error fairly early (around age 22). It is one of the biggest blunders of my life, but it was all my fault. If someone did not get laid in college it was their own fault, there is always some woman out there willing to sleep with you if your willing to sleep with her.

[cephalopede]

Originally Posted by Iaskwhy

What's your point? What is so crazy about me not having sympathy for someone who simply doesn't say "no" for whatever reason and then tries to go on to ruin someone elses life by charging them with rape? Those people disgust me.

1. As it's been shown many, many times, "no means no" is a **** poor model for consent.

2. The number of false accusations is incredibly low, especially when compared to the number of rapes that are never reported/rapists who are never charged.

3. Very nearly everything you've said is a symptom of the rape culture in this country that seeks to shift blame to victims and protect rapists.

[Iaskwhy]

Originally Posted by cephalopede

1. As it's been shown many, many times, "no means no" is a **** poor model for consent.

It works well. In fact, I would guess that over 95% of sexual encounters (probably more) only use this type of consent and it works out great.

2. The number of false accusations is incredibly low, especially when compared to the number of rapes that are never reported/rapists who are never charged.

That's not true I already debunked that. About 8% of rape reports are false. Higher than any other crime.

3. Very nearly everything you've said is a symptom of the rape culture in this country that seeks to shift blame to victims and protect rapists.

There is a rape culture in the US and women aren't the victims. The only rape culture exists in prison. There is no rape culture against women.

"A 1997 report by the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics, which defines rape as forced penetration by the offender,[253] found that 91% of rape victims are female and 9% are male.[254] However, when prison rapes are included in the statistics it has been reported that, according to the U.S. Department of Justice, "...more men are raped in the U.S. than women... In 2008, it was estimated 216,000 inmates were sexually assaulted while serving time... compared to 90,479 rape cases outside of prison.""-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics

0.06% of women were raped per year in 2008 and that number has dropped to about 0.04%. Whereas 15% of male prisoners are raped per year. A male prisoner is therefore 375 times more likely to be raped than a woman. However, people make jokes about prison rape and feminists for the most part couldn't care less. Using the 0.04% number, 3% of women will be raped in their life. That is equivalent to the likelyhood that a male prisoner will be raped in 4 months.

[Ceece]

Yes means yes vs no means no = no actual difference. It's actually an attempt to change the way people, guys especially, think. Will it work? Who knows. It's still "he said/she said" and there is no way to prove yes or no was said. I'm all about not taking advantage of anyone who is passed out or severely incapacitated (male or female), I'm also all about people being responsible and not letting themselves get in that position. If it happens more than once you are a stupid person.

The real problem with all this is that it does nothing to prevent rape. A rapist is a criminal and doesn't care what you say.

The average joes and janes hooking up at parties are not rapists and whores.