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The SF area is very pretty because of the Bay. The area north of SF is very beautiful because of the redwood forests. There's something to be said about seeing those awesome giant sequoias.
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Originally Posted by LoveBoating
Even though the wife and I decided to move out of California, Southern California to be specific, I have been in Northern California and it is absolutely beautiful there. Even though living some places in California is very expensive, Northern California is like a "world of difference" from the rest of the State. To me, SF is much better than LA (IMO) and the ranch land around Oakdale, Redbluff is very nice. I must repeat this, but the scenery in Northern California is spectacular (only word I can think of). I think California is rated WAY to much concerning LA and more people should look at the beauty of "up North".
We left our home in N. CA to find a future retirement spot. We knew we would not be able to stay there due to taxes. I do feel badly for those younger people wanting to make Calif their home, it is an awesome state. We moved to AZ a year ago and found housing to be very affordable and property taxes less. There is great employment opportunity here for the younger workforce as well. However, if I could, I would come back home right now.
First lets get this out of the way. If you feel discriminated against, you did it, no one else. Most people in the world, or in a small town, or a large city, care nothing for you.. Unless you bring yourself to their attention. The same rules apply everywhere, be respectful and kind to others, and they will be respectful and kind to you, unless they have low self esteem or psycho issues etc., and why would you care about those folks opinion of you.
I used to go to SF, I am a backwoodsy ranch logger wilderness wandering sort of guy. In SF with my beard and flannel shirts and essentially anti city feelings, I found myself courted by male and female... The males got dismissed, but,,, I have had very good friendships with people in SF, I would visit there, they would visit here. I don't get too involved with other peoples lives, ideas, opinions etc. I suppose that has allowed me to have friends in every spectrum. And I recommend that approach to all. Whether you want to talk to me about Jesus, or sharing an "alternative" lifestyle, my answer is the the same. You do as you please, but leave me out of it.
i have been reading this thread and I can tell you that you would not want to live in NJ. Not because it's not racially diverse, or tolerant, at least,
but it is so grey. I mean that in the way of the weather, the people , the government, and the arts.
We have had just a few hours of sunshine since halloween, mostly it is grey skys/
The people all complain about the cost of living,the property taxes, the corruption in govt, but no one really does anything about it. we are a state of complainers.
And the arts are completely looked over in the schools,for the most part, most people are more concerned with sports, their cars,and 'keeping up with the joneses.'
I recently read a book about the 100 best art towns in the US,and NJ isn't even listed in the book.
Not to mention that we have the highest real estate taxes and car insurance in the nation?
nuff said?
and
just a question, " Jill Warner, why would you still prefer to live in CA?"
I Left Kent State for L.A. back in the dark ages. Lonely, young, intimidated. In 1972 L.A. was no different than it is today in the "shallow" category. It was a place that could "swirl you around and spit you out" just like you see at one of those pretentious Wine Tastings. Had some family there or I probably would have left sooner, but I had some fun and stayed only a year. Then, when back in Ohio, and many years later, I met and married an L.A. guy and moved back. guy from L.A. ....I married him and moved back. Moved around a bit in SoCal, and even lived in Newport Bch for a while. In 1994 the earthquake shook up my very small world, and I headed back to Ohio to lick my expensive wounds. But here I am back again.....and still complaining!
So, why ? Well, I guess my ex was right. After 3 years of marrying him and being back in California as a grown-up, I thought we should consider moving to Ohio because I perceived life back there as being so much easier. I'll quote what he said as best as I can remember.......He said, "You could never live back there again. You'll see. The first year Christmas will seem so nostalgic and Currier and Ives. By the 3rd year you'll be depressed from 3 years of insufficient sunshine, and by the time that February's roll around each year and you've been stuck inside for 4 months, you'll be ready to kill someone who blinks at you the wrong way. Then, when summer comes and it's raining and humid and you have infectious mosquito bites all over your legs, and you're itching all over, you'll have to redirect all of your sporting activities to indoors. You'd have to buy a house with a screened porch just to get fresh air and be able to have a dinner party outside. And all those wonderful provincial people you talk about back there.... You know, the ones you went to high school with, who have stellar intellectual curiosity, and enviable financial success, and who make half the money we do and own huge 5 bedroom Tudor houses while we still rent? Yes, those people........the one's who's only real life experiences living with cultural diversity come from the television? You think your new POV wouldn't get in the way of fitting in back there? Your blonde hair is 6 shades lighter. You're a California Girl. Trust me, once you've lived here this long, you could never go back to that."
And I guess he was right.
LDDiamondGirl - I sure hope you and Speedoflight are wrong about that California attitude thing since I have to leave Cali and really want to lose the California attitude. I'm not proud of it and I don't really think of it as healthy. The attitude I speak of is not the tolerant, live and let live side of my attitude which I will ALWAYS have, but rather the "always in a hurry", fast driving, life passing me by, numbing kind of attitude. I DO want to slow down and really experience my life. Living in the LA area is just plain AWFUL. There is nothing I like about Southern California... seriously nothing. HOWEVER: I do very much love northern California. My parents took me all over the country when I was young to just about every state on vacations but in my adult years the only place I really love to go is NorCal or more specifically, San Francisco.
San Francisco is a place that I would really love to settle down. I love the tolerant attitudes, the friendly people, the weird people, Haight-Ashbury, the Castro, North Beach, the little book shops and restaurants. There is so much to see and so much to do in San Francisco and it's just like another world there. I love how close everything is too and how their public transportation is convenient and environmentally friendly. I go there (SF) and it's like all the stress and angry feelings I have from living in Southern Cali melt away and I'm overcome by all the wonderful people and culture surrounding me.
My favorite thing to do is hang out in Golden Gate Park and buy pizza's (North Beach Pizza is soooo good!) for the street kids there and hang out and paint amongst the drum circles. I guess you could say I'm kind of a hippie, whatever I'm just who I am. If I could, I would move in an instant to live in San Francisco. It's always been my dream to live there but now with skyrocketing cost of living and prices (San Francisco was bad enough cost-wise to begin with) I can't live there and my dreams of living there will never be fulfilled. This makes me really sad and I'm just sorry I wasn't born in NorCal rather than SoCal. At least then I could have lived there for a little while...
California to me is NorCal: Redwood trees, San Francisco, tolerant open-mindedness, more atheists or "secularism" (a major plus in my opinion), a place for anyone who is different (or not so different), acceptance, Sunshine and fog, an all the things speedoflight wrote about - the different things to see, to do, a tolerance and general live and let live feeling that you won't find too many other places.
Fairweathergolfer - I must say that for all the conservative-Christian Bush loving areas (most of the entire U.S.), there are very few areas for the truly liberal so if we want to revere one of the very few places in this country we have to be truly ourselves and free from pressure to join a church, pressure to vote Republican etc. then I think we should be able to. San Francisco is a rare gem for the liberals and more secularly minded people. There are plenty of places that would "shun" us or be less tolerant like say.... the entire mid-west, south, south east everywhere basically that isn't small pockets of places in the North east and North west so if we are offending you by talking fondly of tolerance and acceptance then perhaps find somewhere more conservative to speak your views but leave us alone. Southern California is certainly conservative just about everywhere except maybe certain pockets of Los Angeles (West Side, WeHo etc.). NorCal is a haven for people who are creative, different, imaginative, and progressive. There aren't many such places that could claim these things and they just happen to be things people are actually PROUD of.
NorCal is a haven for people who are creative, different, imaginative, and progressive. There aren't many such places that could claim these things and they just happen to be things people are actually PROUD of.[/quote]
Well, I used to feel that way about Los Angeles. But I left in '96. There has always been a "Hatfield's and McCoys" thing about the South and North. The Northerners fashion themselves oh so academically and culturally superior, and intellectually bohemian and far more interesting, while the Southerners fancy themselves oh so special with their much more stable family values and sunny dispositions, healthy outdoor water-sports lifestyles and climate. They like to brag about their more "laid back" and hedonistic approach to enjoying life by way of all of California's pleasures.
It's all true. All of it. If you are looking for those NoCal types I described above, you can surely find them. And if you're moving to San Diego because you prefer those SoCal types I described, you'll find them. That's what is so great about living out here. Some live North, and some are South, but I've met the most interesting and attractive people in California.....somewhere. And as the world gets smaller, the tolerance level here gets better and remains superior to anywhere else in the country....and that isn't perfect either, but just try living in Detroit.
And, Florida and Atlanta, too, I hear. When it comes to affordability....well the entire country is in a very huge "Not in My Neighborhood" political state. There is no affordable housing anywhere where you'd want to live. And the residents in all the best places don't want it in their neighborhoods. And that, my internet friend, is another Thread !! But I think, in my infinite California intuitive wisdom, that all the wealthy will become sick of all the pick-ups and polluted old trashy vehicles on the freeways at all times of the day and night for hours trying to get to work. I think maybe things might shift back to a time when the people who worked for the wealthy lived on their land. I think the wealthy are going to try to figure out a way to make money building housing for the working class somewhere close enough to them so they can get them off the freeways, and they can get to Neiman's when there's a sale. But maybe self-contained "working class villages" will not come around in my lifetime. Anyway, as far as trying to find a place to live that's affordable.... I said it before on this website and I'll say it again. "You get what you pay for." Every time. Including neighborhoods. Realtors know that. Location, location. So, you should go to NoCal, where you like it so much. But me? Well, I don't want to be roughed up too much anymore with controversies, academic hype, intellectual superiority position-jockeying, and keeping score on the Reds and the Blues. I just want to be outside in the sunshine, be close to cool things to do that keep me feeling youthful, healthy and stimulated, and make some good friends to have over for some fun dinner parties now and then. I guess SoCal is my bet. Good luck to you.
I forgot something re: Very few places for the truly liberal
That statement about there being very few places left for the truly liberal, which was directed to the gentleman who prefers the more conservative right, .......well that statement hit home.
You know, if you are a minority, tree-hugger, Bleeding Heart, or "fashionably fringe" you will feel much better in Northern California. I mean anywhere North of OC. I have been feeling this unrest for a long time and I bet a lot of others feel it too. It is fear. Really, that's what it is. I am a liberal minded person, although I do tend to be a conservative liberal. And I fear I am in the minority, too. By that I mean I think Richard Gere should scrap the poetry for the poor uncomfortable prisoners, and he should go, instead, to find all their victims and read something soothing to them instead. But anyway, back to the fear. I think the fundamentalism and the religious right stuff is scaring a lot of people. After all, what is the Taliban? And, tell me again, why did those first Americans flee England and come to America again? And please think about this one: how would you feel if, after you put the signs about Jesus and pictures and icons of God in your car windows, on your car bumpers, on your house, and at your desk, I decided to place "Praise Allah" signs with some graphic photos and statuary all over the place, kind of in your face, everywhere you looked, in the yard across the street from you, on all our cars in the driveway, at your workplace, in your restaurant windows, on the walls of public places? And what if, every time you watched an awards show, talk show, any show, the people were always talking about Allah, and how it was because of him that the Oakland A's won, today. Okay. So I've said it. What is happening to the separation of church and state in this country? God is creeping back in our schools, on television, on our cars, commercial vehicles, radio, and all the time and on all the shows. It seems the thing to do today is to publicly, and cloyingly, and continually, credit and praise Jesus and/or God for everything that happens to them. The Oprah show is practically one step away at times from being a replacement for church on Sundays. It is everywhere again. Man, when I grew up it was absolutely POLITICALLY INCORRECT to do that. At least that's what MY parents taught me. People, schools, television and public places were quieter about religious beliefs. Just like they were quieter about their money. I'll tell you I am less offended by ostentatious money than ostentatious religion. Do we need another Madeline Murray OHare in our midst to get a grip on this? I have nothing against Christians, but I don't happen to be one. And I live in this country, too. And I have many agnostic friends, and family. And I would like to say that there is also a religious Reds and Blues constituency in this country that needs to be addressed. The Reds say there is someone up there (pointing to sky) who is manipulating all of this, every single person, place and thing, at every millisecond the earth turns on its axis. And the Blues are shaking their heads going, "Uh-huh." So, I think the fundamentalists and religious right needs to back off. Because people are getting afraid of them. And I am one of them. And, if everyone is so tolerant as they say they are, then go walk a mile in someone else's moccasins for a while and before you start with the bumper stickers and the signs and the talk and the sermons, please think of others. Thank you for letting me finally say this.
Fairweathergolfer - I must say that for all the conservative-Christian Bush loving areas (most of the entire U.S.), there are very few areas for the truly liberal so if we want to revere one of the very few places in this country we have to be truly ourselves and free from pressure to join a church, pressure to vote Republican etc. then I think we should be able to. San Francisco is a rare gem for the liberals and more secularly minded people. There are plenty of places that would "shun" us or be less tolerant like say.... the entire mid-west, south, south east everywhere basically that isn't small pockets of places in the North east and North west so if we are offending you by talking fondly of tolerance and acceptance then perhaps find somewhere more conservative to speak your views but leave us alone. Southern California is certainly conservative just about everywhere except maybe certain pockets of Los Angeles (West Side, WeHo etc.). NorCal is a haven for people who are creative, different, imaginative, and progressive. There aren't many such places that could claim these things and they just happen to be things people are actually PROUD of.
HUH? You know this is quite sad really. It is too bad you don't know who I am my friend, creative, imaginative, different, and progressive. You just described me. I just happen to be a conservative and Christian as well. What does any of this have to do with 'pockets' and tolerance? Because I ain't reading tolerance here Des.
Did I mentioned I once was a secular way lefty? You don't know me so I would be cautious of what you assume. Believe what you want. Live how you want. Preach tolerance all you want to. I don't care how you live. Don't quite know why you're picking on me. I know many conservative Christians that live in the San Fran. area by they way. Very talented, very creative people and well versed in progressive thinking and actions as well (I guess it all depends on how one describes progressive. What is progressive to some is regressive for others.). I love diversity! Makes a place spicy. I like the spice of life.
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Water Seeks its Own Level
