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I also wonder how people could think we are paying a premium for just the weather.
I could understand why the nicest areas would cost much but not areas like the SFV. The issue is the wages just don't meet the COL. At least in places like NYC and DC and SF, they meet somewhat.
Summers are rough? They're more than rough, and it starts way before summer actually starts.
You should have just stuck with bottle tax lingo....LOL.
Phoenix is nice in the winter, it like FL(of course without the humidity) a good part of the year is living A/C house to A/C car to A/C work to A/C store.
You know 2 or maybe 3 months of that is bearable, but it gets old when it becomes half the year or longer.
And you will need your dollar to go further where you have to run the A/C 24/7 for months and months on end.
I was in FL in an electric company's office, just to drop off the payment in the slot for a relative. Couldn't figure out why there was such a long line of people, why didn't they just use the drop off slot. Well when you're average electric bill is $250/300 for the month and you're making around 25/30K a year in salary, you have to make payments on your bill to keep the air on.
In most of CA for most of the year, you can open and close and a window.
Don't know about AZ, but FL is known for very low salaries, even teachers and nurses are among the lowest paid in the nation.
And A/C isn't an option. You have to run it.
I've lived in Arizona on and off for a total of 4 years and about 2 full summers in Phoenix. Yeah the summers suck so you just stay indoors more for a few months? big deal... spend more time on lovely forums like this .
I'm not sure where in FL you are but I've been to Miami/Key West in late June and the humidity was rough. The ocean at Miami Beach was so warm it just wasn't as refreshing as I'd hoped. Almost like a warm hot tub! Still fun being at the beach and all but I know it would have been nicer in spring/fall/winter. But I still think Miami has better summer weather than Phoenix. It was a lot less hot and we were still out at the beach walking around during the day.
Utilities are pretty reasonable here. But I also live in an apartment. But the rates in general I think aren't too bad for AC. Yeah I've heard FL pays low. For the most part, that's AZ too. We have some professional jobs in the tech, banking, kinda sectors but not a lot of Fortune 500 companies given the population. Teachers I hear get paid terrible wages. We're like the lowest funded state for education in the country lol. I'm fairly young (late 20's) and single so schools aren't an issue. But outside of the nicer suburbs (Scottsdale, Chandler, Gilbert, etc) the schools are rated and funded poorly.
Like parts of Florida, there is a lot of wealth in the Phoenix Metro. Particularly places like Paradise Valley and parts Scottsdale. But just like your West Palm Beach's, a lot of these folks made their money elsewhere. They came down here and took a pay cut or retired. Or they are athletes, business owners, doctors, lawyers, etc.
But for the most part, Phoenix feels like a low-wage service sector economy. But the COL is so reasonable that a lot of people can get by on a modest income. Which is sorta how I imagine most of Florida being. A lot of people working retail, waiters, just low end jobs. Taxes, gas, car insurance, fees, etc.. here are pretty reasonable. That is a good thing I notice here in Phoenix is there are a LOT of job opening. You can find a job here... anyone can. But the quality appears lacking. Quanity over quality when it comes to jobs in Phoenix imo.
So I think both states have some similarities. As both are seasonal tourist and retirement meccas with mostly low paying jobs. I've only been to FL once a few years back but I'd like to visit again and see other parts of the state. I really liked Miami/Ft.Lauderdale and Key West. I thought Fort Lauderdale (the very brief time spent there before flying out) looked very promising and nice.
I kinda miss really hot summers. It always felt good to get into the pool on a really hot humid day.
Here in CA the water is always cold. Even when it gets really hot the water is still cold, unless your pool is heated, which in the case of my cheap apt, it's not
Sorry that I'm late to this conversation. Just got home from having lunch and playing in Laguna Beach this afternoon which is about 6 miles from where I live in Laguna Woods which is one of the largest active adult 55+ communities in the United States. Still in my shorts and T-Shirt and haven't had the heat on in the last couple of years. Beautiful day. Water at the beach was even pretty warm. There's so much more to quality of life than dollars, although Laguna Woods is one of the least expensive areas where you can get a 2 bedroom / 2 bathroom 1,100sf place for as low as the $140,000 range (2 years ago you could get one at $80,000). This is in an area of south Orange County where prices average $600,000 or more. Also, had a great time last night at the Valentines Day dinner / dance put on by the Rock N' Rollers Cub which charged about 250 people $20 per person for dinner and dancing to a great band at one of our 7 clubhouses.
Last edited by OChomepro; 02-15-2015 at 05:46 PM..
Sorry that I'm late to this conversation. Just got home from having lunch and playing in Laguna Beach which is about 6 miles from where I live in Laguna Woods which is one of the largest active adult 55+ communities in the United States. Still in my shorts and T-Shirt and haven't had the heat on in the last couple of years. Beautiful day. Water at the beach was even pretty warm. There's so much more to quality of life than dollars, although Laguna Woods is one of the least expensive areas where you can get a 2 bedroom / 2 bathroom 1,100sf place for as low as the $140,000 range (2 years ago you could get one at $80,000). This is in an area of south Orange County where prices average $600,000 or more. Also, had a great time last night at the Valentines Day dinner / dance put on by the Rock N' Rollers Cub which charged about 250 people $20 per person for dinner and dancing to a great band at one of our 7 clubhouses.
It sounds like you've found a great deal in a beautiful location. This speaks to another point which is that there are deals to had throughout the state. For example, the Sacramento area is more affordable when compared to the most expensive coastal areas folks are complaining about here. Some also like the mountains and the Sierra Foothills. Even Coastal Central CA is more affordable where my FIL retired with his wife. He moved there from CO and found a nice home for under 200K.
The biggest complaint here really boils down to housing costs which have always been high along the SoCal coast and Bay Area. The rest is simply in the noise. For those who feel like they can't attain the American dream while striving so hard every day, maybe it really is time for a move.
Secondary migration is actually a very common phenomena as quite a few Californians flee to other states in search of that elusive dream. I saw this big time while living in CO. So I say go, seriously go and see if the grass is greener for you. It just might be... or maybe not. It will be an adventure and learning experience at the very least. If it sucks you can always work your way back to the West Coast. Though it is sometimes harder for some than others based upon certain life situations. We also have a number of threads here from folks trying to return home. They've had enough of the MidWest, South, East Coast, etc... BTW, if you do move *do not* compare your future Shangri La with CA. The locals hate that. It's basically the same thing, love it or leave. But constantly complaining about things or comparing (the food choices, weather, cultural activities, diversity, geography, beaches, job opportunities, etc...) with CA tends to put the locals off.
Ive lived in CA most my life and OC for the last 8 years and yes its nice but COL is ridiculous. I was just looking at apartments for my mother out here in Anaheim which is one of the least expensive OC cities. Rents for tiny little 600-700 sqft, 1 bedroom apartments with no central air or even refrigerators in the dicey parts of town were running $1300+ while the same apartments in the really nice part of town were $1500+ Its just become sad. That kind of money will get you a nice HOUSE in just about any other state.
Yeah I'm not surprised. But look at the Bay Area as well... completely ridiculous. But when I used the OC as a better "value" I prefer it over the Bay Area although I'm not as familiar with the OC admittedly. The COL is comparable but at least you got better weather, waves, women, and pretty much everything. At least it offers more of the quintessential California that people adore around the country. That is my preference, at least. If I'm gonna pay CA prices, I want the best that CA offers. And I think your are in a good spot for that.
Bay Area and LA/OC/SD both overpriced. But you're in the better of two, a better "value" . But as I said in a previous post, I actually think the Sacramento area (especially headed east toward Roseville/Folsom) is pretty nice in parts and is cheaper. The Inland Empire also is a decent value but if you're gonna live out there might as well just follow that value map of yours across state lines to Vegas .
Last edited by Bruce Jackpot; 02-15-2015 at 06:19 PM..
This helps put things into a perspective that everyone can better understand. I live in Michigan, and when I visit CA, along with my plans to move there, it is so much more expensive than living in the mid-west. Apparently the higher cost of living is not a deterrent for all those living there, and those wanting to relocate there.
Ive lived in CA most my life and OC for the last 8 years and yes its nice but COL is ridiculous. I was just looking at apartments for my mother out here in Anaheim which is one of the least expensive OC cities. Rents for tiny little 600-700 sqft, 1 bedroom apartments with no central air or even refrigerators in the dicey parts of town were running $1300+ while the same apartments in the really nice part of town were $1500+ Its just become sad. That kind of money will get you a nice HOUSE in just about any other state.
Why on earth are you looking to move your mother "here"? You have such disdain for the place. Why don't you sell your place and you and mom go somewhere else? Seriously.
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Originally Posted by Berrie143
A simple answer to your question: NO. And all of the CA "supporters" and/or advocates are straight up crazy in thinking that being able to open your windows in February is worth paying such ridiculous prices to live here in CA. Do any of you know what it feels like to not be able to plant roots in the place that you grew up in and where your entire family is because it is so expensive and overpriced? To want something so badly and work so hard for it but honestly never have the chance to get it? I know what that feels like, every damn day of my life.
My husband and I have lived in CA our entire lives and all we want to do is buy a damn home in a safe area with good schools that WE CAN AFFORD. Thing is, CA is not affordable and not family-friendly unless you're pulling in at least 150K- and even then things are tight. How ridiculous is it to pay 350K for a tiny home in a ghetto neighborhood JUST BECAUSE it's in CA? With schools that rank in the 1-2 range out of 10 and have 90% of its students only speaking Spanish? CA, the land of so much culture and great weather- BIG FREAKING DEAL. The vast majority of us don't get the chances the go and enjoy that culture or great beach weather anyway, so why should we pay for it just because there are enough nuts out there who are willing to do it?
There are plenty of states that are beautiful and have culture and opportunities abound- CA is not, I repeat, IS NOT, a state that offers the opportunity to have the American Dream. So, no, for myself and plenty of others I know, it isn't worth paying so much more for things that we barely take advantage of in the first place because we work so much in order to just survive.
It's not just about opening a window in Feb. You have never lived somewhere where you can't open a window most of the year, due to horrific heat and humidity.
Nor have you experienced what the East Coast is currently getting.
And with all due respect both you and your husband were born in CA, well that means you have parents who live/lived here. Anyone that I have met who is a native Californian has inherited a home at some point. Whether they choose to live in it or not is their decision.
If you had moved here a few years ago from the Midwest I could understand home ownership being out reach, but it's simply not true that the whole state of CA is unreachable in regards to home ownership. It may not be in your area(SD, LA or Orange counties). But you're embellishing.
Don't know old you are, but anyone that was born and raised in Southern CA over 40 has either inherited or will inherit some expensive real estate. I know a few people who live in the homes their parents had or sold them and retired early.
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Originally Posted by Bruce Jackpot
I've lived in Arizona on and off for a total of 4 years and about 2 full summers in Phoenix. Yeah the summers suck so you just stay indoors more for a few months? big deal... spend more time on lovely forums like this .
I'm not sure where in FL you are but I've been to Miami/Key West in late June and the humidity was rough. The ocean at Miami Beach was so warm it just wasn't as refreshing as I'd hoped. Almost like a warm hot tub! Still fun being at the beach and all but I know it would have been nicer in spring/fall/winter. But I still think Miami has better summer weather than Phoenix. It was a lot less hot and we were still out at the beach walking around during the day.
Utilities are pretty reasonable here. But I also live in an apartment. But the rates in general I think aren't too bad for AC. Yeah I've heard FL pays low. For the most part, that's AZ too. We have some professional jobs in the tech, banking, kinda sectors but not a lot of Fortune 500 companies given the population. Teachers I hear get paid terrible wages. We're like the lowest funded state for education in the country lol. I'm fairly young (late 20's) and single so schools aren't an issue. But outside of the nicer suburbs (Scottsdale, Chandler, Gilbert, etc) the schools are rated and funded poorly.
Like parts of Florida, there is a lot of wealth in the Phoenix Metro. Particularly places like Paradise Valley and parts Scottsdale. But just like your West Palm Beach's, a lot of these folks made their money elsewhere. They came down here and took a pay cut or retired. Or they are athletes, business owners, doctors, lawyers, etc.
But for the most part, Phoenix feels like a low-wage service sector economy. But the COL is so reasonable that a lot of people can get by on a modest income. Which is sorta how I imagine most of Florida being. A lot of people working retail, waiters, just low end jobs. Taxes, gas, car insurance, fees, etc.. here are pretty reasonable. That is a good thing I notice here in Phoenix is there are a LOT of job opening. You can find a job here... anyone can. But the quality appears lacking. Quanity over quality when it comes to jobs in Phoenix imo.
So I think both states have some similarities. As both are seasonal tourist and retirement meccas with mostly low paying jobs. I've only been to FL once a few years back but I'd like to visit again and see other parts of the state. I really liked Miami/Ft.Lauderdale and Key West. I thought Fort Lauderdale (the very brief time spent there before flying out) looked very promising and nice.
No longer in FL, and happy to say that. And actually even Phoenix cools down much earlier in the year than FL. You also have mountains, FL only has the beach as a selling point, that gets old quickly. Besides unlike other states by the water, you get no relief from the heat at the beach in FL. Sorry, I don't like being a prisoner of A/C 8 or 9 months out of the year. There is also no "cool down" at night like CA. It is still 85 and humid at 1am, again no opening of windows.
And as far as COL goes, FL had the most expensive car insurance out of the states I have lived in, including CA, and the groceries were pricey, and those $250 on average electric bills, things have a way of evening out.
No longer in FL, and happy to say that. And actually even Phoenix cools down much earlier in the year than FL. You also have mountains, FL only has the beach as a selling point, that gets old quickly. Besides unlike other states by the water, you get no relief from the heat at the beach in FL. Sorry, I don't like being a prisoner of A/C 8 or 9 months out of the year. There is also no "cool down" at night like CA. It is still 85 and humid at 1am, again no opening of windows.
And as far as COL goes, FL had the most expensive car insurance out of the states I have lived in, including CA, and the groceries were pricey, and those $250 on average electric bills, things have a way of evening out.
FL is fine for a vacation, not to live in.
Interesting feedback. As a west coast native, I never really felt real humidity until I visited Florida! Haha. Had that unpleasant sticky feeling but after a couple days of being there you just get used to it. Same thing here in the summer, at first it's like holy **** why am I living in this oven? But then you just acclimate to it. I've heard that complaint about Florida being flat and all but can't you just head up to the Georgia mountains or something.... might be a trek I'd imagine. Either way, no state has it all... well . except maybe California .
I think many people just want change. Like I yearn for the beaches of CA and FL but know if I was living there I'd probably miss some things about AZ. I like the desert scenery, occasional hikes, sunny year-round weather, many attractive women . It feels like a more positive place to me...people are more active and in general seem content with their lives.
In a place like Florida I'd miss some of what the West offers but enjoy and be grateful for it's own natural wonders. Having the whole eastern seaboard and Caribbean islands at your fingertips is not too bad. But it looks like you've soured on FL but at least you know what you like and don't like. Rather than stay stuck or scared to make a change like so many (as if moving to another state is some huge undertaking...)
Cheap groceries here in AZ . I see milk on sale for less than $2 a gallon all the time. Cases of water with no *gasp* bottle tax at $2-$2.50.
But we don't have that "Publix" chain in FL that I hear so many talk highly about.
Interesting feedback. As a west coast native, I never really felt real humidity until I visited Florida! Haha. Had that unpleasant sticky feeling but after a couple days of being there you just get used to it. Same thing here in the summer, at first it's like holy **** why am I living in this oven? But then you just acclimate to it. I've heard that complaint about Florida being flat and all but can't you just head up to the Georgia mountains or something.... might be a trek I'd imagine. Either way, no state has it all... well . except maybe California .
I think many people just want change. Like I yearn for the beaches of CA and FL but know if I was living there I'd probably miss some things about AZ. I like the desert scenery, occasional hikes, sunny year-round weather, many attractive women . It feels like a more positive place to me...people are more active and in general seem content with their lives.
In a place like Florida I'd miss some of what the West offers but enjoy and be grateful for it's own natural wonders. Having the whole eastern seaboard and Caribbean islands at your fingertips is not too bad. But it looks like you've soured on FL but at least you know what you like and don't like. Rather than stay stuck or scared to make a change like so many (as if moving to another state is some huge undertaking...)
Cheap groceries here in AZ . I see milk on sale for less than $2 a gallon all the time. Cases of water with no *gasp* bottle tax at $2-$2.50.
But we don't have that "Publix" chain in FL that I hear so many talk highly about.
That would be a tough one. AZ has the beautiful red rock canyons including Oak Creek Canyon. In addition the mountains around Flagstaff. Also you can be in SD in ~ 6 hours. So when you really get that desire to see the ocean it can be reached in a reasonable time (weekend).
With FL you have the Eastern Seaboard if that appeals to you. Weather may be a wash with AZ depending on where in FL. While Phoenix is way too hot for me I really like higher elevation towns in AZ around Sedona. But there is less work up there and as such it tends to be very popular for retirees who like moderate weather.
Derek
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. But as I said in a previous post, I actually think the Sacramento area (especially headed east toward Roseville/Folsom) is pretty nice in parts and is cheaper. The Inland Empire also is a decent value but if you're gonna live out there might as well just follow that value map of yours across state lines to Vegas 
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