Is moving columbia river water to california a good idea? (Los Angeles: home, live)

[509]

Read up on the pacific-northwest electrical intertie to see why the northwest will never do another resource connection to California.

In 2000, we lost tens of thousands aluminum industry jobs so the electricity could be shipped to California. Worse yet, President Clinton suspended the endangered species act for the recovery of salmon populations so even more electricity could be shipped south!

Then folks noticed to California refused to adopt any electrical conservation practices like turning out street lights and outdoor advertising. Killing salmon because Californians were to lazy to flick a light switch!

That gift of the inter-tie to California has resulted in 200,000 acres of endangered shrub-steppe habitat inWashington state being destroyed by Industrial Wind Areas so MORE so called "sustainable" power could be shipped south to meet California's green power goals. In Oregon there are Industrial Wind Areas proposed outside Bend that will further destroy hundreds of thousands of acres.

Now you think shipping water south is a good idea?

Not going to happen, fool us once shame on you. Fool us twice shame on me.

California has serious ecological problems linked to cancerous population growth. California needs to focus on that, not stealing resources from neighboring states.

[chuckmann]

Originally Posted by NoMoreSnowForMe

LOL. Water, water, coool cleear water, water...

By Marty Robbins:

First verse:
All day I face
the barren waste
without the taste of water,
cool water
Old Dan and I
with throats burned dry
and souls that cry
for water,
cool, clear, water

Second verse:
The nights are cool
and I'm a fool
each star's a pool of water,
cool water
And with the dawn
I wake and yawn
and carry on to water,
cool, clear, water

Chorus:
Keep a-movin' Dan,
don't you listen to him Dan,
He's a devil not a man
and he spreads the burning sand with water,
Dan can you see that big, green tree
where the water's running free
and it's waiting there for you and me,
water, cool, clear, water

Third verse:
The shadows sway and seem to say,
tonight we pray for water,
cool water
And way up there
He'll hear our prayer
and show us where there's water,
cool, clear, water

Chorus:
Keep a-movin' Dan
don't you listen to him Dan,
He's a devil not a man
and he spreads the burning sand with water
Dan can you see that big, green tree
where the water's running free
and it's waiting there for you and me
water, cool, clear, water
cool, clear, water

frick and frack I cant get the you tube to post correctly


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxAQwMNXlic

Well shut my mouth!

[PNW-type-gal]

Originally Posted by David Pierro

Since the early 1960s I have read with interest ideas of how to get water from the Columbia River to California. The first I proposal I recall was to run a 17' diameter nylon pipe (perhaps PVC plastics hadn't been invented or weren't widely known then) from near the mouth of the Columbia River down the coast, presumably along the seabed, to California. I liked the idea then; and I still think that such a pipeline or one or more similar to it is feasible and desirable. Of course we must take into account the needs of the people of Wasington and Oregon. Surely our politicians can think of one or more ways to show the people of all states involved that one or more such aqueduct pipes from the Columbia River to California would be a win - win plan.

Between electric production and the fact that the Columbia is a navigable river, all the way from Astoria up to the confluence with the Snake and up to Lewiston, there is no spare water - and our own farmers along the river are having water rights cut off because of drought.

[chuckmann]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Right: No.

We don't have a water problem. We have a population problem.

so what do you propose we do about this population problem, TM? I'm ALL in favor of forcibly exporting all those who were not born in California prior to today whose parents were not California residents prior to 1960. You comfortable with that?

Hell, I volunteer for the job of fascist dictator in charge of expelling all who do not comply, at no salary! Send 'em to Texas!

[509]

Originally Posted by chuckmann

so what do you propose we do about this population problem, TM? I'm ALL in favor of forcibly exporting all those who were not born in California prior to today whose parents were not California residents prior to 1960. You comfortable with that?

Hell, I volunteer for the job of fascist dictator in charge of expelling all who do not comply, at no salary! Send 'em to Texas!

The US as a country reached ZPG in the late 70's and early 80's. It is no accident that the borders were opened shortly afterward.

According to an article in the Council of Foreign Relations we need a population of 400 million to keep up with China and Indian and maintain our world power status.

The ecological problems of population growth extend way past the borders of California.

[DMenscha]

No.

For my NW friends. Remember WPPSS? Electricity too cheap to meter.

Let's drain Lake Tahoe first. Why should Reno get all the good stuff?

[BeauCharles]

The Columbia has a discharge rate 10 TIMES that of the Sacramento and San Joaquin Rivers at SF Bay. Its almost half the discharge rate of the Mississippi River. We couldn't begin to make a dent in that river if there were an aqueduct placed say, north of Portland and run down the Willamette Valley. It would be a good idea, but should have been implemented before the 1960s. There's no way it would happen today - water projects anywhere are a thing of the past thanks to over-zealous environmental regulations and activism. Takes ten years to widen a stretch of road or build a bridge from start to finish let alone build something on that scale. Anyway, I fully believe it they tried there would be eco-terrorists going after the project and the people building it (if it ever did happen).

[xPlorer48]

No way, Jose. How about shipping out all those illegals your Moonbeam governor keeps inviting? Or, quit installing swimming pools and learn to conserve? Maybe the desert shouldn't be converted to farm/ranch land. Our own eastern part of the state does that and although it feeds the nation with our world famous apples along with other produce (hops for micro breweries), it comes as a price. The Hetch Hetchy dam was built due to powerful interests in San Francisco wanting water and power for SF. It was once a part of the Yosemite National Park. Or, how about the other power brokers from LA who forced the ranchers off the Owens Valley to bring water to LA? Enough of your thieving to satisfy greed and a non-sustainable life style.

[PNW-type-gal]

Originally Posted by BeauCharles

The Columbia has a discharge rate 10 TIMES that of the Sacramento and San Joaquin Rivers at SF Bay. Its almost half the discharge rate of the Mississippi River. We couldn't begin to make a dent in that river if there were an aqueduct placed say, north of Portland and run down the Willamette Valley. It would be a good idea, but should have been implemented before the 1960s. There's no way it would happen today - water projects anywhere are a thing of the past thanks to over-zealous environmental regulations and activism. Takes ten years to widen a stretch of road or build a bridge from start to finish let alone build something on that scale. Anyway, I fully believe it they tried there would be eco-terrorists going after the project and the people building it (if it ever did happen).

Again - it is a navigable river. 465 river miles of navigable river. Huge container ships and barges, all the way to Idaho. The water flow and river height is what makes it navigable and makes it ideal for electricity generation - which California is a already a big user of.

The "overzealous regulations" are called western water right law which was put into place, piecework, in the 1800s. We already have our own farmers being cut off because of low water supplies, why on earth should it be shipped elsewhere?

It is only a "good idea" because California is out of water due to its own policies.

[DriveNotCommute]

Originally Posted by 509

Read up on the pacific-northwest electrical intertie to see why the northwest will never do another resource connection to California.

In 2000, we lost tens of thousands aluminum industry jobs so the electricity could be shipped to California.

....

California has serious ecological problems linked to cancerous population growth. California needs to focus on that, not stealing resources from neighboring states.

In other words, power companies in the Pacific Northwest figured out that they could get a lot more money selling power to Los Angeles where there is both the demand and the money for it, despite any transmission losses involved. Why would they agree to the deal otherwise? It sounds to me like the aluminum industry up there had a flimsy business plan that was dependent on hoping that the local power companies never find a better customer.

What also doesn't line up is talking about preserving an extremely electricity-heavy industry like aluminum extraction in one breath, then preaching about environmental damage and green energy in another.

California didn't have to "steal" anything, welcome to the market as it exists in the US.

I am otherwise lined up with the message of people using less water and power in daily life.