Overpopulation denial + AGW + drought = historic water rationing (Columbia: subsidized, quality of life)

[ca_north]

California has mandated 25% water rationing across the state, which is unprecedented. But the reaction to it is old news.

Here are superficial solutions proposed by various groups and ideologies:

Build more dams! So they can store what water from what snowpack? Flood our remaining wild rivers so we can cram as many people as possible into CA for the sake of "economic growth?" What's the ultimate point of making the economy ever-larger? Servicing debt on fiat money and making top-skimmers rich, mainly.

Let the delta smelt go extinct. It's just a tiny fish! Sure, let's wreck the delta's ecology by diverting more water to farms instead of admitting that people are the problem. That fish is a bellwether species, not just a random triviality.

Abolish the Coastal Commission and build desalination plants! Yet another excuse for more population growth and environmental destruction. It's also very energy intensive and mainly practical in oil-soaked nations like Saudi Arabia (the U.S. "shale revolution" may peak by 2020 or so). Solar powered desalination plants may work in some areas but they still perpetuate the agenda of limitless growth and bigger messes down the road.

Stop immigration! A very smart idea, but many don't see it in carrying-capacity terms, just the old "save our jobs" mentality. A number of conservatives wouldn't mind if CA had a white overpopulation problem, which they'd rationalize as fair competition. They miss the bigger issue of people-overload.

To truly fix this problem as much as possible, I think we should:

• Curb immigration and increase family planning aid for Mexico and other pressure-cooker nations.
• Offer birth control incentives to Californians who maintain high birthrates after arriving.
• Practice more personal restraint and stop wasting all resources, not just water. Idling engines for no reason is a common example of waste. Oil should be conserved at any price point.
• Growth must cease at some point on this finite planet and quality of life will decline if business-as-usual prevails. We need to phase out the mindless chant of "grow the economy!" Aren't most of you at least tired of the traffic jams?

Here's a 2004 article that rings truer each day, drought or no drought: Infinite Ingress - LA Times

R.I.P. Marc Reisner, who saw this coming decades ago, as did most scientists. The typical reaction was, "yes, but we need to grow the blessed economy forever." Maybe now people will wake up to limits.

[pch1013]

Correction: California has mandated 25% reductions in water use across the state - EXCEPT among the agricultural users whose profligate use of subsidized water has been largely responsible for bringing us to this point.

[shooting4life]

I wonder if the OP is volunteering to leave to help solve the problem?

Back in reality, we are not going to kick people out of the state. Brown is actually doing the opposit.

I think it is funny when you say truely fix the issue and then list things that won't do anything to actually address the problem.

Here are your options that really "solve" the problem

Stop growing food sans soy beans, delicious.
Force baby quotas like China to limit birth rate, nothing more american.
Or build damns to store water in wet years for dry years.

So of the above, which sounds more reasonable? I'm thinking the third option.

[Teckeeee]

Originally Posted by pch1013

Correction: California has mandated 25% reductions in water use across the state - EXCEPT among the agricultural users whose profligate use of subsidized water has been largely responsible for bringing us to this point.

Glad to see some of us are informed as well about this CRISIS

[Wilson502]

Originally Posted by shooting4life

I wonder if the OP is volunteering to leave to help solve the problem?

Back in reality, we are not going to kick people out of the state. Brown is actually doing the opposit.

I think it is funny when you say truely fix the issue and then list things that won't do anything to actually address the problem.

Here are your options that really "solve" the problem

Stop growing food sans soy beans, delicious.
Force baby quotas like China to limit birth rate, nothing more american.
Or build damns to store water in wet years for dry years.

So of the above, which sounds more reasonable? I'm thinking the third option.

Building more dams at this point is futile if theres no water/snow melt to fill them.

[shooting4life]

Originally Posted by Wilson502

Building more dams at this point is futile if theres no water/snow melt to fill them.

That's the thing with cycles. Sometimes it is dry, like now, other times it is wet, like four years ago. That's why dams work so well, you see when you are in a wet cycle and you have more fresh water than you can use you can save that water instead of letting it flow into the ocean. Then in the dry years you take that extra water you stored and use it when needed.

It will not always be dry, just like it will not always be wet. It will take time to build new dams. Hopefully they can be built before the next wet cycle. Knowing this state, we may be able to get a few dams built before the wet cycle after the next one.

A fitting quote re your OP
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. - William Pitt

[Wilson502]

Originally Posted by shooting4life

That's the thing with cycles. Sometimes it is dry, like now, other times it is wet, like four years ago. That's why dams work so well, you see when you are in a wet cycle and you have more fresh water than you can use you can save that water instead of letting it flow into the ocean. Then in the dry years you take that extra water you stored and use it when needed.

It will not always be dry, just like it will not always be wet. It will take time to build new dams. Hopefully they can be built before the next wet cycle. Knowing this state, we may be able to get a few dams built before the wet cycle after the next one.

A fitting quote re your OP
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. - William Pitt

You cant simply assume that the rains will just come back. If you look at CA's climate history in the past, you will find that from analyzing tree rings that droughts in CA's past have lasted decades or even centuries. The 20th century was unusually wet, and the state is reverting back into a desert. I understand your whole premise of storing water in wet years, but thats completely irrelevant at this point since theres nothing to fill it. Truthfully, anyone with any foresight saw this situation coming decades ago.

[shooting4life]

Originally Posted by Wilson502

You cant simply assume that the rains will just come back. If you look at CA's climate history in the past, you will find that from analyzing tree rings that droughts in CA's past have lasted decades or even centuries. The 20th century was unusually wet, and the state is reverting back into a desert. I understand your whole premise of storing water in wet years, but thats completely irrelevant at this point since theres nothing to fill it. Truthfully, anyone with any foresight saw this situation coming decades ago.

If you want to hang your hat on "it will never rain in a meaningful way again" argument, feel free. I was unaware climate had shifted in the last 4 years from wet to never raining again.

Easy solution, instead of spending money on the hsr build a pipeline from wet part of the country to the dry part of the country.

[Wilson502]

Originally Posted by shooting4life

If you want to hang your hat on "it will never rain in a meaningful way again" argument, feel free. I was unaware climate had shifted in the last 4 years from wet to never raining again.

Easy solution, instead of spending money on the hsr build a pipeline from wet part of the country to the dry part of the country.

I never said it will never rain in a meaningful way again, but as I have stated long lasting droughts of this nature are not uncommon in CA's past. I agree the HSR funds should be used to address the drought, but that's not likely to happen given the joke of a response to the drought the state has taken.

[expatCA]

Simple solution. The Gov in DC declares a National Emergency in CA orders Desalination plants built and this gets rid of the delays environmentalists cause, a treatment of sewage program by each County and the now clean water is returned to the County that does it for use again, it is called .... Recycling; and maybe even a pipe line from the Columbia River.

#1 and #2 are the most likely and cost effective.

As to AG, well they keep growing or we have no veggies, fruit, nuts, etc or it costs more out of our pocket to import such. In other words no matter what, it will cost the residents because their elected representatives were pandering to special interest groups and ignored the need. Oh, OC a "conservative" County has done one of the above and SD is building a desalination plant. How are the Liberal Counties doing?