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Old 04-22-2017, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Riverside Ca
22,146 posts, read 33,237,834 times
Reputation: 35433

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
Thanks for the advice but I think I'm probably old enough to decide which comments to respond to and I don't want drama either but that doesn't mean that I will avoid responding to a post in order to avoid it.

As far as it being cheaper to live in California than Nevada, it's not hard to calculate.
  • We don't pay state income tax so Nevada not having income tax is of no benefit to us
    Subsidized by gambling
  • Gas is about 30-40 cents a gallon cheaper here than in Reno
    And you rarely drive far as the major population areas are Las Vegas and Carson city/Reno
  • Car insurance is cheaper
    Actually I have friends paying higher rates in Nevada than California
  • Vehicle registration is almost a wash except in Nevada the car value portion of the registration decreases more slowly than in California, so my 2011 SUV cost $80 less when we first registered it in California in 2014
  • Property tax is cheaper in California and is basically fixed due to prop 13
    Property tax isn't fixed. It can only be raised at a certain rate. Which is circumvented by mello Russell and bonds so in some cases property tax is 2%
  • sales tax is about the same
    Ok.
  • housing prices almost exactly the same (Reno vs Sacramento)
    Ok.
  • water bill $100 month Reno vs $60 Sacramento
    Ok
  • Gas and Electricity $250-$400 in Reno, $80-$100 here.
    Ok

Don't forget that you also make less in Nevada pay wise for the same job in Ca. So when you add everything up it's not really any different.

Here is how I go shopping for insurance. I call different agents and tell them I need insurance fir
Cars, property, rentals, umbrella etc. at these xyz coverage limits? I look at the total cost.
It makes no difference if one guy charges me 2000 for car insurance and 500 for all the others and the other guy charges 1500 for car insurance and 1100 for the others it's 2500 vs 2600.

When you add up this is it's but this is mire and put it against your income you'll find that it's probably not much different. People think housing is cheaper n x state I'll move there cause I'll save on housing. Yeah you will but that's only if your wages stay the same as you have them now.
I hear a lot of moving to Texas is better. For me to move to Atexas I would be taking a 33% pay cut. And double my property taxes
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Old 04-22-2017, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,745 posts, read 25,916,011 times
Reputation: 33842
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovehound View Post
I have noticed that homeowners insurance is more expensive in AZ than in CA. FWIW.

You may not have heard yet but CA auto registration costs are increasing this year by a significant amount.
The increase in registration fees range from $25 for a vehicle with a value of $5,000 up to $175 for a vehicle valued at $65,000. I can't find the formula used to calculate it, but I'm guessing our registration will increase by around $40 a year each of two cars.
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Old 04-22-2017, 01:40 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,745 posts, read 25,916,011 times
Reputation: 33842
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrician4you View Post
Don't forget that you also make less in Nevada pay wise for the same job in Ca. So when you add everything up it's not really any different.

Here is how I go shopping for insurance. I call different agents and tell them I need insurance fir
Cars, property, rentals, umbrella etc. at these xyz coverage limits? I look at the total cost.
It makes no difference if one guy charges me 2000 for car insurance and 500 for all the others and the other guy charges 1500 for car insurance and 1100 for the others it's 2500 vs 2600.

When you add up this is it's but this is mire and put it against your income you'll find that it's probably not much different. People think housing is cheaper n x state I'll move there cause I'll save on housing. Yeah you will but that's only if your wages stay the same as you have them now.
I hear a lot of moving to Texas is better. For me to move to Atexas I would be taking a 33% pay cut. And double my property taxes
I don't disagree, and the difference is not huge- except for the savings on gas and electricity. Our total insurance bill, vehicle and homeowners is about $200 less than it was in Nevada. When I discuss the price of housing, I'm comparing per square foot sales figures for the two areas, they are very similar. When we lived in Nevada and my husband was working there, we benefited because we would have been paying state income tax if we had been in California, after he retired there was no advantage, financial or otherwise for us to stay in Nevada
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Old 04-22-2017, 01:58 PM
 
Location: Paranoid State
13,044 posts, read 13,789,090 times
Reputation: 15837
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
But, if nothing else this kind of outrageous cheating needs to addressed through legislation:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterjr.../#37d3bb883c5f
I read the article and its various references. I found no evidence of cheating anywhere.
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Old 04-22-2017, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Paranoid State
13,044 posts, read 13,789,090 times
Reputation: 15837
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
I worked as a manufacturing engineer in San Leandro CA and was a member of the local association...

Across the board companies that made things like orthopedic items to industrial finishers like chrome platers all left California... even Prescott lighting and another company that made specialty automotive pistons left... Not a one went out of business or closed up shop... they relocated out of California.

Wellmade metal products, Standard metal products... heck... even Toyota left taking 5,000 union jobs.

There must be a reason they all left.

In-law was plant superintendent for the large Antioch Paper Mill... at one time the plant had 3,000 workers and the plant, even at the worst of times never made less than a million a month on profit...

Plant still closed as the regulatory climate worsened with each passing year... the plant operators said the hand writing was on the wall... and this was a plant that had the first private PGE co-generation steam turbine power plant and had many awards...

Didn't matter... even the million a month profit in the worst of times was not enough to make the plant worthwhile...

Posco is another... the steel plant in Pittsburg that made rolled steel with a large customer being the Toyota plant in Fremont...

Pacific Oxygen Gas plants closed up and moved operations...

It is easier to establish yourself outside California and freight things in....

The list is staggering... as to the products we made here that are still being made... but no longer in California.

Of course others went off shore but the ones I mention simply left California

In addition to your examples... Silicon Valley got its name, of course, from Semiconductor Wafer Fabrication plants ("Fabs") where "computer chips" are made on silicon wafers. Currently, the wafer is about the size of a dinner plate (300mm) but it used to be much smaller - the size of a bread plate. We used to have many, many Fabs in California. They are almost all gone -- not because of labor costs but because of California's regulatory burdens and California's misguided policy of charging sales tax on capital equipment used to manufacture those "computer chips". When a fab retools to build a new generation of chips, this extra sales tax amounts to $60 million or more. Other states don't do this.

The jobs lost are very high skilled and highly paid positions: PhDs in many science and engineering disciplines.
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Old 04-22-2017, 03:14 PM
 
Location: So Ca
26,593 posts, read 26,478,904 times
Reputation: 24541
"Prop 13...has protected homeowners and renters. But it’s also given a quiet windfall to entrenched corporate owners of commercial property.

Corporations don’t need this protection. They’re in the real economy. They’re supposed to compete on a level playing field with new companies whose property taxes are based on current market prices.

This corporate windfall has caused three big problems.

First, it’s shifted more of the property tax to California homeowners. Back in 1978, corporations paid 44 percent of all property taxes and homeowners paid 56 percent. Now, after exploiting this loophole for years, corporations pay only 28 percent of property taxes, while homeowners pick up 72 percent of the tab.

Second, it’s robbed California of billions of dollars to support schools and local services. If all corporations were paying the property taxes they should be paying, schools and local services would have $9 billion more in revenues this year.

Third, it penalizes new and expanding businesses that don’t get this windfall because their commercial property is assessed at the current market price—but they compete for customers with companies whose property is assessed at the price they purchased it years ago. That’s unfair, and it’s bad for the economy because California needs new and expanding businesses."


This California Property Tax Loophole Must Be Fixed

"There's something grating about commercial real estate buyers being able to avoid reassessments that a typical home-buyer can't. That strikes at least some lawmakers as unfair."

Michael Dell: Poster boy for a Proposition 13 tweak? - LA Times
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Old 04-22-2017, 03:27 PM
 
Location: SoCal
14,530 posts, read 19,993,519 times
Reputation: 10539
Good post CA4Now. I have just a few small points to add.

1. Huge corporations are unlikely to move. Last time I had a statistic on families moving it was once every 7 years. That means the corporation has a long established Prop 13 record, and that homeowners get a reset every 7 years. This supports your post.

2. At least the huge corporations employ people so they are providing our economy with jobs, the employees being people who buy goods and pay taxes. (Not related to your post.)

My own opinion is that big CA government simply spends too much money. We should be looking at smaller government, fewer regulations, a smaller state operating budget--which then would require less taxes to feed the monster. -- It's the same thing on the federal level.
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Old 04-22-2017, 04:12 PM
 
8,873 posts, read 11,656,049 times
Reputation: 10784
I am a home owner. I have no problem with how commercial properties are assessed under Prop 13. It's funny how the greedy democrats can claim they speak for home owners. They don't speak for me. As pointed out previously, this is a smoke and mirrors tactic to distract home owners from the real goal of dismantling Prop 13 and hurt every home owner.

Quoted from the LA Time Article linked above:

"To be fair, Dell plans a major renovation of the property, and that investment will trigger a reassessment and generate a significant amount of revenue for the city. Is it such a bad thing that Dell structured his deal in a way that minimized his property taxes prior to the renovation? I'd say no, if those savings were crucial to Dell being able to achieve his ultimate goal of transforming the aging hotel into a high-rise hotel and condo complex. Because over the long run, the city stands to gain much more than is being lost in the short term."

I consider this a tax incentive to keep companies and jobs in CA. We have lost too many companies and jobs to other places already because the democrats over-tax and over-regulate. Many companies left the state because of the horrible business climate here. When you are losing businesses and jobs, you need to provide incentives to keep them from leaving.

We hear same old and tired story about lack of funding for school, etc. year after year. And we pay more taxes every year but the problems are never solved. The problem is not the lack of funding. The problem is waste. Stop the waste and you solve the funding problem. Here is one place to start:

"$100K Minimum Wage' For 220,000 Highly-Compensated California Public Employees Costs Taxpayers $35B"

https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamand.../#47d23c294e03

Last edited by davidt1; 04-22-2017 at 05:12 PM..
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Old 04-22-2017, 04:48 PM
 
28,107 posts, read 63,410,741 times
Reputation: 23222
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
Arizona property taxes are low, but I really doubt if they are 1/4 of what they are in California, you can do the calculation to prove otherwise right here: https://smartasset.com/taxes/property-taxes#07uRXPGuEs That shows Phoenix property tax on a 250k house @ $2,005 and Sacramento property tax on the same home value @ $2,373. But if you stay in your Arizona house for 10 years, what will your property tax be as opposed to mine in Sacramento where increases are controlled by prop 13? Because if Phoenix taxes go up when the property is reapplraised, and both of our houses double in value my guess is that you will be paying close to twice as much as me. And it does appear, at least from this article, that taxes in Arizona do increase

Why my Arizona property tax bill
And if you lived in Oakland as I do the property tax with all the assessments could very well be $3500

Mom owns the land that is her backyard... it is a couple of steep acres in Oakland with an assessed value of 25k... yes 25k because it is not buildable... but it is a nice buffer... the property tax on this jumped from 3k to 4k in one year due to a number of Special Assessments often calculated on lot size...
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Old 04-22-2017, 04:55 PM
 
28,107 posts, read 63,410,741 times
Reputation: 23222
Quote:
Originally Posted by USDefault View Post
No, these oldies never paid their dues. They are collecting Social Security and Medicare dollars far in excess what they paid into the system. And current seniors and boomers are precisely why both programs are underfunded and in serious trouble. They are sucking out benefits far, far higher than what they paid in.

Concerning the California property taxes they pay, nope, here too they also are not paying their dues. California is running a $1+ trillion deficit, when you include unfunded pension liabilities. These old people are not paying enough in property taxes to fund California's current obligations plus currently occurring future obligations. That is why California is raising all kinds of taxes and fees (gas, vehicle, income, nicotine, soda, bonds) to pay current obligations. These old people vote in spendthrift politicians who are spending hundreds of billions of dollars now -- but which will have to be paid in the future by today's young and their unborn. This is the math. These are the hard facts. And the math simply cannot be disputed.
They most certainly did...

The neighborhood I bought into had 30 year bond assessments for drainage, roads and the local school...

My sellers paid into all 30 years... I simply bought their home after the special assessments had been paid off... and get the benefits someone else paid for.

Do you really think your kids and grand kids are not going to say the same about you?

I can already here it... remember when you could buy a nice home for a million dollars...

I heard it as a kid when people said a nice home costs 50k and later as a teen when it was a 100k and when I bought the median was 600k and then the market collapsed.

What cannot be disputed is a lot of disgruntled folks unwilling to pay their dues...

Prop 13 was a grass roots movement that had EVERY politician and government employees fighting tooth and nail... yet, enough people said enough is enough and swept it into law and then those same people fighting it took it to the US Supreme Court and lost...

I may not like every law... but I am thankful each and every day the voters that came before me had the sense and courage to interject a little sanity as to how property is taxed...
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