Public Employee Unions want to change Prop. 13 so busness property tax goes up & up more every year. (San Francisco: rental homes, appraisal)

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by TheFlats

It's almost as if the....value... of the house lowered from 2007 to 2012. Hmmmm.

Not almost... it did if you wanted to sell... but to realize a loss you would have to sell... for those that didn't it was just business as usual.

The way property tax is administered was insidious... there has to be a gain or loss realized in just about every case EXCEPT for property tax... totally insane to be taxed based on a unrealized event.

Maybe some are OK with gentrification driving out people out... I am not.

The beauty of Prop 13 is that each purchase stands on its own... matters not what your neighbor does...

[TheFlats]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

The way property tax is administered was insidious... there has to be a gain or loss realized in just about every case EXCEPT for property tax... totally insane to be taxed based on a unrealized event.

So if you bought a house for 600K in 2007. In 2012 you would have trouble selling it for 300K. You should be taxed on the 600K value of the house instead of the "unrealized" 300K?

I said that property taxes should be based on the value of the property. You said that's what Prop 13 is. I said no. Now, using the last refuge of a losing argument, semantics, you're telling me that no one can truly define the value of a house? If that were the case then the HELOC industry would be in big trouble, haha.

[aslowdodge]

Originally Posted by TheFlats

Even if you couldn't care less about the current younger generations from a purely selfish standpoint handicapping them will not serve the Baby Boomer generation well when it comes time for us to pay for your entitlements. If the numbers don't work we will start cutting pension benefits and social security benefits, we will start capping Medicare and Medicaid nursing home costs, we will block the NIMBYs and build more housing, bringing down the artificially inflated value of your suburban stucco retirement vehicles.

Mark my works, this isn't complaining, your generation has the power structure now and if you don't exercise it to fix our finances then you will live long enough to see the consequences, even as you try to delay them as much as you can.

Got it, you're not complaining. Just threatening if you don't get what you want.

The housing market is STILL red hot in Ca. Plenty of millenials and gen x's are buying homes, so why aren't you? Take your own advice and bootstrap yourself like others your age did and bought houses.

You said you believe in competition, this is where it is-competition for housing. learn to play the game or get out.
You are complaining about entitlements for the baby boomers, now you are trying to change the system that entitles you and not them. Talk about two faced. I always love the bold talk of how millenials will change everything. They might well do so, but if they do so it is to benefit themselves over others like you are suggesting.

I also love your post about where you say "It's not that hard".
I see you had no answer when the system that supposedly will appraise all properties fairly at value failed as I gave you an example of in another state. Cat got your tongue?

[TheFlats]

Originally Posted by aslowdodge

I see you had no answer when the system that supposedly will appraise all properties fairly at value failed as I gave you an example of in another state. Cat got your tongue?

What example again? We have many examples of a Prop 13-less tax system. Look at the dozens of states that tax property as a percentage of the property's fair market value.

[Electrician4you]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Then there's no reason for consumers to support lowering taxes on businesses huh? If consumers don't benefit from lower prices because of lower taxes then one can assume that the business owner is shoveling the extra revenue into their pocket, right?

Lowering taxes has nothing to do with price of food. What lowers prices is your competition lowering prices.
Take avocados. A while back we had a drought and avocados were expensive. Mexican avocado growers RAISED their prices because the California growers had no product. Once the California growers got back on track the costs went back down. Taxes had nothing to do with the price of the commodity.

If my property taxes get lowered I’m not going to lower my rents if everyone is charging as much or more. Why should I. Now if everyone is charging less for a like property sure I’ll be competitive.

Look at banks and companies. They had a few years of RECORD quarterly returns. Did they lower prices? I dont think so. They are now putting money in expanding and wages but that’s because people are leaving for greener pastures.

[jnojr]

Originally Posted by TheFlats

So if you bought a house for 600K in 2007. In 2012 you would have trouble selling it for 300K. You should be taxed on the 600K value of the house instead of the "unrealized" 300K?

I said that property taxes should be based on the value of the property. You said that's what Prop 13 is. I said no. Now, using the last refuge of a losing argument, semantics, you're telling me that no one can truly define the value of a house? If that were the case then the HELOC industry would be in big trouble, haha.

Putting aside the question of why should we pay a tax to be allowed to keep property we supposedly own... what difference does it make what the "value" is? If someone bought a house twenty years ago for $100,000; but today it's supposedly worth $1,000,000... why should they be paying ten times as much? If the house hasn't actually sold, what is it that makes it "worth" that? When they sell, they'll face capital gains of $900,000... 15% of that isn't enough?

Why is it that some people seem to believe that the "value" of a property is some kind of stash of cash that's being greedily hoarded, and can be tapped into to benefit people other than the homeowner?

And lastly, if that home is a rental, and the property taxes go up tenfold, do you believe it's OK for the property owner to increase rents to recoup that loss? If not, where are they supposed to get the cash to pay the higher taxes?

[TheFlats]

Originally Posted by jnojr

And lastly, if that home is a rental, and the property taxes go up tenfold, do you believe it's OK for the property owner to increase rents to recoup that loss? If not, where are they supposed to get the cash to pay the higher taxes?

Yeah, that's how it works in all those other states. Value goes up, property taxes go up, rents go up. How about landlords in San Francisco paying property taxes on 10% of their building's current value and charging market rate rents while pocketing the tax break?

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by TheFlats

Yeah, that's how it works in all those other states. Value goes up, property taxes go up, rents go up.

If you'd prefer to pay $30 K in annual property taxes (as my aunt and uncle do in another state), then by all means, do so.

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by TheFlats

Yeah, that's how it works in all those other states. Value goes up, property taxes go up, rents go up. How about landlords in San Francisco paying property taxes on 10% of their building's current value and charging market rate rents while pocketing the tax break?

So you want to pay more and more and more because taxes should always go up and you should pay more and more?

Oh, in those other States, well people are leaving there too. Now in FL as an example, no State income tax and a tax regulation on property like Pro 13 and ... they 3rd fastest growing State.

[SportyandMisty]

Originally Posted by TheFlats

That fact exists whether you like it or not.

You have an odd definition of "fact."