Prop. 30: Unions, "Advocates" Demand Higher Taxes, Permanent Increase (school, camp)

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Originally Posted by Electrician4you

So you don't use every loophole and advantage of the tax code to your advantage? I know I do. Most try to also.

Why would people who have no problem whatsoever paying higher taxes use loopholes in the tax code in order to pay the lowest possible amount? That's what a few in this thread have said, that rich CA residents don't mind paying more in taxes which we all know is BS.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by TheMoreYouKnow

Why would people who have no problem whatsoever paying higher taxes use loopholes in the tax code in order to pay the lowest possible amount? That's what a few in this thread have said, that rich CA residents don't mind paying more in taxes which we all know is BS.

Huh? That doesn't make much sense. Most wealthy people are impacted by taxes less than the middle class because of loopholes- so doesn't it make sense that they would be less sensitive to a tax increase?

[Linda_d]

Originally Posted by davidt1

So true. But what can do you? Those who make the rules (government employees) get to pillage.

Ummm ... this was a ballot initiative/referendum, so it's actually the voters who made "the rules" on this one. Maybe you should work on getting a proposition on the ballot that bars anybody who would get any benefit from a proposition from voting on it.

[nslander]

Originally Posted by Linda_d

Ummm ... this was a ballot initiative/referendum, so it's actually the voters who made "the rules" on this one.

And they got it right. Those who can't grasp such simple realities need to shut the hell up. Those who do understand, but refuse to acknowledge as much, need to get the hell out.

[davidt1]

Originally Posted by Linda_d

Ummm ... this was a ballot initiative/referendum, so it's actually the voters who made "the rules" on this one. Maybe you should work on getting a proposition on the ballot that bars anybody who would get any benefit from a proposition from voting on it.

I was simply responding to the other poster's complain about government workers living a good life on the back of taxpayers, not prop 30 specifically.

I was reading an article about high taxes in Sweden. Amazingly, the people there seem to like high taxes. The author of article looked a little deeper and found that the majority of the population there have government jobs or are receiving government assistance. In other words, they vote for high taxes because that is where their salary and government assistance come from.

It's kind of the same situation in CA. The "voters" that you speak of are the majority who vote for more taxes because they are government workers and other groups who benefit from high taxes.

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Huh? That doesn't make much sense. Most wealthy people are impacted by taxes less than the middle class because of loopholes- so doesn't it make sense that they would be less sensitive to a tax increase?

If they aren't sensitive to tax increases why do they go through so much trouble and expense to pay the absolute least possible when it comes to taxes? The only people who believe that the impact of higher taxes is no big deal for the rich are people who aren't rich and have plans for the additional tax money you want taken from the rich.

[LoriBee62]

Originally Posted by davidt1

I was simply responding to the other poster's complain about government workers living a good life on the back of taxpayers, not prop 30 specifically.

I was reading an article about high taxes in Sweden. Amazingly, the people there seem to like high taxes. The author of article looked a little deeper and found that the majority of the population there have government jobs or are receiving government assistance. In other words, they vote for high taxes because that is where their salary and government assistance come from.

It's kind of the same situation in CA. The "voters" that you speak of are the majority who vote for more taxes because they are government workers and other groups who benefit from high taxes.

Not even close. Voters in California look at what the tax increase is funding. If it's something they want (road improvements, school programs, light rail, etc.) they vote in favor of it. Most also take the time to look into whether or not those funds can be "stolen" by the general fund or diverted to other programs without voter consent. In that case, the proposition often gets turned down for that reason.

Less than 10% of California residents are employed by the state. That's hardly enough to dominate an election.

As for Sweden, I'd gander to bet they don't "like high taxes". Instead, they like the quality of life, infrastructure, and programs they receive, and--unlike right-wing America--they're intelligent enough to know that those things actually cost money.

[LoriBee62]

Originally Posted by TheMoreYouKnow

If they aren't sensitive to tax increases why do they go through so much trouble and expense to pay the absolute least possible when it comes to taxes? The only people who believe that the impact of higher taxes is no big deal for the rich are people who aren't rich and have plans for the additional tax money you want taken from the rich.

You really think the wealthiest Americans are doing their own taxes?

Reality check: They go through zero trouble and expense. They pay accounting firms to manage their finances, which includes taxes. All they do is write a check.

Do they pay for better firms than the average Joe at H&R Block? Sure, but they're also paying for a better gardener than you have, and it's not because they hate trees.

[davidt1]

Originally Posted by LoriBee62

Not even close. Voters in California look at what the tax increase is funding. If it's something they want (road improvements, school programs, light rail, etc.) they vote in favor of it. Most also take the time to look into whether or not those funds can be "stolen" by the general fund or diverted to other programs without voter consent. In that case, the proposition often gets turned down for that reason.

Less than 10% of California residents are employed by the state. That's hardly enough to dominate an election.

As for Sweden, I'd gander to bet they don't "like high taxes". Instead, they like the quality of life, infrastructure, and programs they receive, and--unlike right-wing America--they're intelligent enough to know that those things actually cost money.

City, county, state employees are all government employees. They are powerful voting groups.

I think I am touching a nerve here.

What useless government agency do you or your family work for?

Please don't try to make this into a left/right issue. It makes you look like a juvenile.

[LoriBee62]

Originally Posted by davidt1

City, county, state employees are all government employees. They are powerful voting groups.

I think I am touching a nerve here.

What useless government agency do you or your family work for?

Please don't try to make this into a left/right issue. It makes you look like a juvenile.

And please don't make stupid assumptions about people you don't know. I makes you look no better.

I work for a private company. Never spent a day employed by any government agency in my life. Neither has my husband, or anyone in my family, now that I think of it. Oh wait, my step-sisters husband up in Washington was a police captain. If you need to stretch that far to feel all smug and righteous, have at it. Sure. I only vote for taxes to support the husband of a half relative in another state. You were SPOT ON there.

Or we can get back to reality which is that I have voted for MANY new taxes because I want the things they pay for. Believe it or not, there actually are people willing to pay for things like schools and roads and firemen and libraries, and mass transit systems. We're smart enough to know that the magic faeries aren't going to come bring them to us for free.