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Ruth is correct about the post that was deleted in which I was replying to in regards to drugs. They are everywhere, not just CA. If I could rep you again Ruth I would. Thanks.
The traffic in CA is horrible. LA is the worse, then SF and next San Diego. If a young person doesn't mind traffic, then at least they know it is there. They should also know that CA has had a 4 year drought and that the climatologists don't expect that to change any time soon. How would you like to move to a State and find out that you have to take short showers, can't water your yard, etc?
You can come over to the Oklahoma forum and bash it if you like as I don't take things like that personal in regards to people's opinions of other States and countries.
As for myself, I am finished with this thread.
I've driven through OK City quite a few times and the traffic there is just as bad as LA, Although my family lives in the Bartlesville Nowata area which is like small town Northern CA. No Traffic!
It looks like only one person who's responded so far is an actual teacher in CA. Too bad someone jumped down her throat for not sugar coating her experience.
I've driven through OK City quite a few times and the traffic there is just as bad as LA, Although my family lives in the Bartlesville Nowata area which is like small town Northern CA. No Traffic!
Wait ... wait ... did you just say that the traffic in Oklahoma City is just as bad as it is in LA?! Seriously?
It looks like only one person who's responded so far is an actual teacher in CA. Too bad someone jumped down her throat for not sugar coating her experience.
You mean for looking down on people who don't have a college degree or weren't born in the US?
You can get your point across with out coming off as superior.
That same poster is now whining about Las Vegas and teaching there.
Perhaps they should just stay in Podunk, Iowa where they have one token black and couple of Latinos.
Yes, every school district in CA is just loaded with illegals and parents who don't speak English. Every one of them. How on earth do they afford those expensive houses?
You mean for looking down on people who don't have a college degree or weren't born in the US?
You can get your point across with out coming off as superior.
That same poster is now whining about Las Vegas and teaching there.
Perhaps they should just stay in Podunk, Iowa where they have one token black and couple of Latinos.
Yes, every school district in CA is just loaded with illegals and parents who don't speak English. Every one of them. How on earth do they afford those expensive houses?
I beg your pardon?
I highly doubt that the teacher who moved to California from the Midwest and recanted his or her personal experience as a teacher in this state somewhere up-thread is looking down on people who don't have a college degree or weren't born in the US.
Sorry, but you have it severely twisted.
It seems to me as well as other sensible posters on this forum that the teacher from the Midwest was cautioning new teachers from other states about the realities of entry-level teaching opportunities at public schools in California, which seems nothing short of fair, IMO.
If you worked for a company with lots of poor qualities (e.g., lousy management, lazy employees, entitled clients, etc.), wouldn't you warn a friend or another person from applying and/or working there, especially if they were coming from out-of-state and planning to uproot their lives to work for said company?
Those from outside of California may not have any awareness to the issues currently plaguing California public schools because, in most of the country outside of the Southwest, these issues are nowhere near as exaggerated or severe, especially in the Midwest, Northeast and much of the Intermountain West. That, or they're largely relegated to urban ghettos and barrios.
Unfortunately, public school teachers are the "first line of defense," so to speak, of many of our societal ills, as they are faced to deal with the harsh realities of these issues on a daily basis - certainly much more so than a childless professional in another field who lives an upscale existence in a posh urban development or sheltered suburban community.
As far as I know, you're not a teacher, so why would you chastise a teacher for recanting his or her personal experience as a new teacher in California and providing his or her honest opinion as to whether the OP, also a new teacher from out-of-state, should move here or not?
Since I'm not a teacher in California, I caution to comment on and certainly chastise or label any teacher's personal experience in the field. They are the professionals who immerse themselves in the field every single day, so their experience and opinions must account for something, even if it's not politically correct by your liberal standards.
And to deny that the plurality of public school students in California come from low-income, ESL households with first-generation immigrant parents that are more than likely not formally educated themselves, especially in the major cities and farming communities, is disingenuous at best when there is tons of empirical data to prove otherwise.
It just so happens that quite a few of my friends in Southern California grew up in small cities across the state (e.g., Salinas, Chico, Fresno, Modesto, etc.) as well as a couple who grew up in inner-city Los Angeles. They and their parents - most of whom are immigrants themselves, mind you - have nothing good at all to say about the public school systems in which they were educated.
In fact, many of my friends have validated that particular teacher's experience with their own personal experience as students in undeserved public schools in California in the not-so-distant past.
For example, two of my friends from Modesto attended a high school where around 50% of the student body spoke English as a second language.
I hate to break it to you, but that's unheard of in most states, even in 2016 America.
Now, of course, my friends from southern Orange County, Ventura County, etc. attended public schools that were as good or better than many private schools, but the turnover rates in those school districts are much lower. Teachers, like any other sensible professional, are hesitant to give up something good when they have it, and that's why it's much more difficult for new teachers, especially those from out-of-state, to secure positions in the better school districts.
You're a lot older than me, so most of the Californians you know were most likely educated in another US state or country, or were educated during the "Golden Age" of California's public educational system (i.e., pre-Prop 13), when the system was well-funded and highly regard, similar to what you'd find in present-day Connecticut or Minnesota.
Despite having moved away from NY in the 1980's, you've certainly maintained quite a few of the stereotypical traits and habits of a person from the NYC area - pompous, surly, critical, defensive, quick to name-call or jump down someone's throat, enjoys "stirring the pot," etc.
Also, why are you looking down your nose at someone who lives in Las Vegas or a rural town in Iowa? I'm the first to admit that either option wouldn't be my first choice, but I would never marginalize someone who chose to live there or even move there after an unpleasant experience in an area that I love (Southern California).
I hated the state I grew up in - it was truly a poor fit for me personally. However, I have tons of friends and family who still live there and love it, and I've never chastised or marginalized any of them for residing there and/or liking it - maybe as a disgruntled teenager, but certainly not as an adult.
Grow up, and stop causing trouble.
Last edited by Bert_from_back_East; 01-31-2016 at 06:18 PM..
I highly doubt that the teacher who moved to California from the Midwest and recanted his or her personal experience as a teacher in this state somewhere up-thread is looking down on people who don't have a college degree or weren't born in the US.
Amen.
The amount of misinterpretation and projection that goes on in some of these threads is unbelievable.
It looks like only one person who's responded so far is an actual teacher in CA. Too bad someone jumped down her throat for not sugar coating her experience.
Actually, I retired as a school counselor in California in 2015. I guess I'm not a "teacher" but I am definitely an educator who has lots of experience with the public school system here and worked with California teachers for many years. And, as I said, I know a number of new teachers who did just fine moving to California.
By the way, I've also worked in schools where a sizable portion of the student body came from low income families and were recent immigrants. Many of those students faced challenges that "middle class" students and their parents couldn't even begin to imagine, yet those students were often some of the most motivated students I've worked with in my career as an educator. Yes, I knew teachers who considered those students a burden....but in my experience the BEST teachers took great joy in helping those students overcome their challenging circumstances. After all, that's what being a teacher is ultimately all about: helping students reach their full potential.
To the original poster: as with anything in life, it all depends on how determined you are to make something happen. No place is perfect, but what you make of a situation is up to you.
You mean for looking down on people who don't have a college degree or weren't born in the US?
You can get your point across with out coming off as superior.
That same poster is now whining about Las Vegas and teaching there.
Perhaps they should just stay in Podunk, Iowa where they have one token black and couple of Latinos.
Yes, every school district in CA is just loaded with illegals and parents who don't speak English. Every one of them. How on earth do they afford those expensive houses?
Please point to the line in his/her post that claims all districts in the state are like this, or even most. The poster merely spoke from their personal experience, which is all any one of us can do when asked. Would you feel better if they lied and said that all CA public schools are great, and there is no difference between middle-class native English speakers from low-crime neighborhoods and those who are poor, ESL, illegal, and from crime-ridden areas?
I'm sorry but teachers are only humans--any normal person would become frustrated if day in and day out the MAJORITY of her students and parents were apathetic or lacking basic skills. We're not talking a few bad apples or a few new immigrants struggling with the language--that is a different scenario. Superiority has nothing to do with it. If you move to another country and REFUSE to even attempt to learn the language because you don't give a rat's tail about communicating with your child's teachers, and expect everyone to turn the elementary school into a mini UN to cater to you, then yes I'm going to look down on you because you are shortchanging your own child.
I lived in NC for ten years and the poster is smart to ask this question, because she may not know what she's in for. The fact is this state does have the highest poverty rate in the nation at 24%, the highest percentage of illegals, 58% of Angelenos can't afford to live here, and CA is near the bottom of state education rankings. Are you saying none of that affects the teaching experience? Are all those policy analysts and social researchers anti-California elitists who just made those numbers up? It's not all about money, either. Many poor and working class people value education greatly, but if you have friends who are teachers (like I do, in both CA and TX), they will tell you that there is a generation of parents today who are disengaged from their children's education, that want to be the child's friend instead of parent. They place all responsibility and all blame on the teacher. So it's not a uniquely CA problem, but it is a bigger problem in CA than many other places. Just because that poster is having problems in Vegas doesn't mean she/he lied about problems in CA.
Actually, I retired as a school counselor in California in 2015. I guess I'm not a "teacher" but I am definitely an educator who has lots of experience with the public school system here and worked with California teachers for many years. And, as I said, I know a number of new teachers who did just fine moving to California.
By the way, I've also worked in schools where a sizable portion of the student body came from low income families and were recent immigrants. Many of those students faced challenges that "middle class" students and their parents couldn't even begin to imagine, yet those students were often some of the most motivated students I've worked with in my career as an educator. Yes, I knew teachers who considered those students a burden....but in my experience the BEST teachers took great joy in helping those students overcome their challenging circumstances. After all, that's what being a teacher is ultimately all about: helping students reach their full potential.
To the original poster: as with anything in life, it all depends on how determined you are to make something happen. No place is perfect, but what you make of a situation is up to you.
Yes, I totally agree with this. One doesn't have to be a current teacher to understand what is going on in the CA school systems. I have three relatives who have taught in CA as well as many friends who are in the profession. In addition, as a parent, I know many families who deal with these situations all the time. And then there are those who don't have to deal with it, depending on the demographics of that district. None of this is any kind of special, insider information. Rather, it is simply common knowledge to most who have lived here any length of time unless they're living under a rock.
While I agree its good to open the eyes of out staters to these conditions, not all will view children or their families as burdens like this. If one goes into these lower socio-economic regions to teach, they simply have to know what they are signing up for. Try to learn the language and realize there are cultural and educational barriers. Otherwise, let someone else take the job who is wanting to make a difference 'under those conditions.'
If one is shocked by these socio-economic conditions in the schools after taking a position, it indicates the lack of due diligence in researching the current state of educational system in that area. This is not hidden or secret information. The data is all there including demographics, test scores, other teachers, administration, etc...
The other big complaint was rising housing costs. Sorry, but that once again was naive to think prices would remain the same, relatively low values after the huge RE crash occured. The data again was all there including market values and trends. Entry level teachers will not be able to afford a condo or house based upon COL in relation to their lower incomes. That's true for most other entry level positions as well. Again, this is common knowledge which doesn't require years in the trenches to discover.
Derek
Last edited by MtnSurfer; 01-31-2016 at 08:48 PM..
While I agree its good to open the eyes of out staters to these conditions, not all will view children or their families as burdens like this. If one goes into these lower socio-economic regions to teach, they simply have to know what they are signing up for.
How many 23-year-olds would know this, much less one from another state?
Quote:
If one is shocked by these socio-economic conditions in the schools after taking a position, it indicates the lack of due diligence in researching the current state of educational system in that area. This is not hidden or secret information. The data is all there including demographics, test scores, other teachers, administration, etc.
How many people know this who do not teach, who have not sent their kids to public schools....or who don't have children, period, as the OP doesn't?
Quote:
The other big complaint was rising housing costs. Sorry, but that once again was naive to think prices would remain the same, relatively low values after the huge RE crash occured. The data again was all there including market values and trends.
In 2012, it was predicted that housing prices would continue to fall. No one in their early 20s would have had any reason to believe differently.
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. Every one of them. How on earth do they afford those expensive houses?
