Fresno Struggles With $15 Min Wage (2015, layoffs, living in)

[Perma Bear]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Yeah. Me too. Thanks! I am having a ball.
Say, just noticed you don't have nearly as high a percentage of rep points relative to posts as I do. Whoops. Doesn't mean much, but just kinda jumped out at me suddenly given what you said about folks agreeing with you a lot more than me.

So successful he cares about internet points!

[jm1982]

Originally Posted by Perma Bear

He can afford to roll on the floor because he was so successful at printing that he can buy new Armani suits every time.

Right and I'm sure he paid his employees...if he had any at least 3 or 4 times the minimum wage.
There was probably so much money coming in that he didn't know what to do with it besides paying employees huge salaries and buying Armani suits.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Perma Bear

He can afford to roll on the floor because he was so successful at printing that he can buy new Armani suits every time.

Fellas! What happened to Fresno? I'm just trying to get some actual facts straight here about that topic. We've established that Fresno is growing like a weed and businesses are booming there at one of the nation's fastest rates. And this happened while employment was increasing as minimum wages have been rising.

Where do we go from here?

Aw hell, I'll call it a night while you two fret for the future.

Nighty night.

[jm1982]

Yep Unemployment rate about 11% in Fresno...employment is increasing?
Will probably be much higher when wages are $15hr
Unless those idiot small business owners start learning how to make a profit right?

[Chimérique]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Oh barf. Are we going to lionize mom and pop business owners now as if they were America's heroes, as has become the fashion with the public fawning over the military? If a restaurant has ordinary food - or worse - and another around the corner has better, where you gonna eat given similar pricing? I'll pay a bit more to eat better. Damn right the food has to be interesting to get my wallet out.

Another callous and insensitive response, downright arrogant. A response that avoids the issues presented, and attempts to diminish the plight of the victims(small businesses in this case).

The attackers provide no support for the small businesses. Yet the small businesses provide the actual means and funds to support social programs and workers wages. The attackers, i.e. the looters and parasites provide no substance, means nor wealth to society, yet the attackers rule and control us. and we gladly let them control us.

I'll pay more to eat at better, and more interesting restaurants, but not everyone can afford that, and in a city like Fresno that has very limited disposal income compared to Seattle or SF, it will be very difficult for the small business owner to survive.

I also appreciate small independent restaurants that may not be "extra interesting" but provide fresh tasty food and good customer service, I wonder how well he will be able to survive the increased minimum wage increases..

[Perma Bear]

Originally Posted by Chimérique

Another callous and insensitive response, downright arrogant. A response that avoids the issues presented, and attempts to diminish the plight of the victims(small businesses in this case).

The attackers provide no support for the small businesses. Yet the small businesses provide the actual means and funds to support social programs and workers wages. The attackers, i.e. the looters and parasites provide no substance, means nor wealth to society, yet the attackers rule and control us. and we gladly let them control us.

I'll pay more to eat at better, and more interesting restaurants, but not everyone can afford that, and in a city like Fresno that has very limited disposal income compared to Seattle or SF, it will be very difficult for the small business owner to survive.

I also appreciate small independent restaurants that may not be "extra interesting" but provide fresh tasty food and good customer service, I wonder how well he will be able to survive the increased minimum wage increases..

You're ****ting me right? I'd argue people in Fresno have WAY more disposable income considering 100,000 in SF is basically enough for a welfare lifestyle of eternal rent servitude while 200,000 (for a home) gets you into the best neighborhoods in Fresno.

[jm1982]

Yes, I have said that the hostile attitude toward small business is like "biting the hand that feeds you"
It's awful that cities like Fresno will be subjected to these laws. The worst part is that Jerry Brown knew it was a bad idea and vocalized that...but he threw small business under the bus anyways. He also knew it was bad for the poor and did a disservice to the poor.. But he gave into the protestors and the unions..

Jerry Brown in January 2016..
"“Raise the minimum wage too much and you put a lot of poor people out of work,” Brown told reporters according to the Sacramento Business Journal. “There won’t be a lot of jobs. It’s a matter of balance.”"
California Gov. Brown Doesn't Approve Of $15 Minimum Wage | The Daily Caller

[Ralph78]

But I'm a realistic, rational observer. A logician. I report what is. Facts. Statistics. Proven history. Science. Irrefutable logic.

Tullemutt

Here is something for you to consider. I have a friend that has a Mc D franchise in the central valley of California. I had a discussion with him about how the minimum wage rise to $15/hr., over the next 6 years, would affect his business. It is a successful business that has 32 employees. He gave me a quick review of what his plans were to allow him to remain a profitable business in the face of the coming $15/hr. minimum wage. He roughed out his current basic labor costs, which will rise by an average of $6.00 per hour. He plans on increasing the wages of all of his employees to keep the same relative pay scale based on job being done and skill set, to maintain a motivated work force.

Average direct wage cost per employee approximately $12 per hour including SS, or $25,000 per year.
Total employee payroll $800,000 per year. (32 X $25,000)

Average direct wage cost per employee after the full $15/hr kicks in will be $18 per hour, or $37,500/year
Total employee payroll $1,200,00 per year (32 X $37,500)

He stated that he would probably be unable to increase his payroll by $400,000 per year and remain in business.

He has already started automating his order entry process by placing 4 self order stations in his McD's(I understand that a number of larger McD's have already installed self order stations that will slowly become the main ordering process over the next two years). I asked about automation costs, and he believes that the payout for all of the additional automation investment he plans on putting in place will be one or two years.

He plans on other automated processes that will, in total, reduce his number of employees to 24, and save him approximately $300,000 per year in direct labor costs. (reducing his minimum wage force by 7 + 1 supervisor.)

Currently there are about 1,490 McDonald's in California. Assuming some locations have less than 32 employees, the loss of jobs at McDonald's in California due to automation could be approximately 10,000. For the Fast Food industry alone the job loss could top 50,000 in California. Add in all of the other minimum wage positions, and the total number of job losses could be very high. 500,000???? time will tell.

The substantially larger number of low skilled, and usually less educated, unemployed will probably result in more "Aid" programs, money for which must be sucked out of the working Taxpayer, higher crime rates, etc., etc..

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Ralph78

But I'm a realistic, rational observer. A logician. I report what is. Facts. Statistics. Proven history. Science. Irrefutable logic.

Tullemutt

Here is something for you to consider. I have a friend that has a Mc D franchise in the central valley of California. I had a discussion with him about how the minimum wage rise to $15/hr., over the next 6 years, would affect his business. It is a successful business that has 32 employees. He gave me a quick review of what his plans were to allow him to remain a profitable business in the face of the coming $15/hr. minimum wage. He roughed out his current basic labor costs, which will rise by an average of $6.00 per hour. He plans on increasing the wages of all of his employees to keep the same relative pay scale based on job being done and skill set, to maintain a motivated work force.

Average direct wage cost per employee approximately $12 per hour including SS, or $25,000 per year.
Total employee payroll $800,000 per year. (32 X $25,000)

Average direct wage cost per employee after the full $15/hr kicks in will be $18 per hour, or $37,500/year
Total employee payroll $1,200,00 per year (32 X $37,500)

He stated that he would probably be unable to increase his payroll by $400,000 per year and remain in business.

He has already started automating his order entry process by placing 4 self order stations in his McD's(I understand that a number of larger McD's have already installed self order stations that will slowly become the main ordering process over the next two years). I asked about automation costs, and he believes that the payout for all of the additional automation investment he plans on putting in place will be one or two years.

He plans on other automated processes that will, in total, reduce his number of employees to 24, and save him approximately $300,000 per year in direct labor costs. (reducing his minimum wage force by 7 + 1 supervisor.)

Currently there are about 1,490 McDonald's in California. Assuming some locations have less than 32 employees, the loss of jobs at McDonald's in California due to automation could be approximately 10,000. For the Fast Food industry alone the job loss could top 50,000 in California. Add in all of the other minimum wage positions, and the total number of job losses could be very high. 500,000???? time will tell.

The substantially larger number of low skilled, and usually less educated, unemployed will probably result in more "Aid" programs, money for which must be sucked out of the working Taxpayer, higher crime rates, etc., etc..

Ralph - welcome to the party.

You do realize those automatic self order stations, like all the other automated equipment your friend is planning to buy, are market ready for him now because they were conceived, designed, and built long before this wage hike was ever even a discussion on the streets let alone in the legislature, - um, right?

You know why?

And "aid programs? You understand that your friend's employees are already on "aid programs" in addition to what low pay he provides them, because they don't earn enough to get by without government assistance? Assistance we all are already paying for through our taxes? Which effectively subsidizes your friend's profits?

Right?

[jm1982]

Ralph78,

Thanks for sharing this real life example. It is clear that if your friend did not automate (reduce his number of employees) he would not be able to survive this minimum wage hike. Luckily he can invest in automation and is hooked in with a large multinational corporation (McDonalds).
I'm sure that automation is not his ideal. But this law basically forces him to automate and get rid of employees.
Ironic that it was mostly fast food workers from McDonald's that were supporting this law.