are new gun laws really what the people of CA want? (San Bernardino: law, transport)

[neutrino78x]

Originally Posted by shooting4life

So you didn't actually read the article.

Again if you have a delusion that the USA is somehow a tyranny you do not need to handle any firearms.

[shooting4life]

Originally Posted by neutrino78x

Again if you have a delusion that the USA is somehow a tyranny you do not need to handle any firearms.

Where did I say the current iteration of the us government is tyrannical? I said the 2nd amendment and our founding documents support the overthrow of a tyrannical government to then form new government with consent of the governed.

You keep on trying to attribute words and arguments to me that I have not made since you cannot refute the arguments that I do.

[neutrino78x]

Originally Posted by shooting4life

Where did I say the current iteration of the us government is tyrannical? I said the 2nd amendment and our founding documents support the overthrow of a tyrannical government to then form new government with consent of the governed.

Woah, you're making a big leap there.

The founding fathers said they had to use force to get Britain out because they were treating us in a tyrannical fashion.

The 2nd Amendment, however, has nothing to do with that. The 2nd Amendment is talking about a militia. The militia was there to take orders from the President, not to resist him. It was there to replace a standing Army. Of course in 2016 we basically don't have a militia anymore. We have the national guard but it is just the reserve units of the military.

The 2nd Amendment in 2016 is about self defense and other legal uses of firearms (such as hunting and target practice/sports).

[shooting4life]

Originally Posted by neutrino78x

Woah, you're making a big leap there.

The founding fathers said they had to use force to get Britain out because they were treating us in a tyrannical fashion.

The 2nd Amendment, however, has nothing to do with that. The 2nd Amendment is talking about a militia. The militia was there to take orders from the President, not to resist him. It was there to replace a standing Army. Of course in 2016 we basically don't have a militia anymore. We have the national guard but it is just the reserve units of the military.

The 2nd Amendment in 2016 is about self defense and other legal uses of firearms (such as hunting and target practice/sports).

Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of."
- James Madison, Federalist No. 46, January 29, 1788

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country."
- James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434, June 8, 1789

“A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves…and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms… "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
- Richard Henry Lee, Federal Farmer No. 18, January 25, 1788

"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."
- Samuel Adams, Massachusetts Ratifying Convention, 1788
"The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them."
- Joseph Story, Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States, 1833

"Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence … from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable … the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference — they deserve a place of honor with all that's good."
George Washington


I didn't see hunting mentioned anywhere; strange you keep telling me that is what the second amendment is about.

[1AngryTaxPayer]

Originally Posted by neutrino78x

Yes. I'm saying that the United States of America is the most free nation in the history of the world, and has never and will never become tyrannical.

But IF they became tyrannical, your phallic toy that you use to compensate for a small male organ would not resist the US military. They would use whatever means necessary to eliminate the threat.

This notion became obsolete decades ago. Unless you want civilians to have access to things like armed drones, hellfire missiles and tactical nuclear weapons.

Wow, you just insulted hundreds of thousands of women.

[janellen]

Originally Posted by shooting4life

Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of."
- James Madison, Federalist No. 46, January 29, 1788

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country."
- James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434, June 8, 1789

“A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves…and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms… "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
- Richard Henry Lee, Federal Farmer No. 18, January 25, 1788

"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."
- Samuel Adams, Massachusetts Ratifying Convention, 1788
"The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them."
- Joseph Story, Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States, 1833

"Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence … from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable … the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference — they deserve a place of honor with all that's good."
George Washington


I didn't see hunting mentioned anywhere; strange you keep telling me that is what the second amendment is about.

Good post. According to snopes: "Switzerland provides each of its citizens a sig550 assault rifle and provides training in use of this weapon. Switzerland issues every adult a gun and trains them how to use it: Switzerland has lowest gun-related crime rate in the civilized world".

From Wikipedia:
Swiss males grow up expecting to undergo basic military training, usually at age 20, after which Swiss men remain part of the "militia" in reserve capacity until age 30 (or age 34 for officers). Each such individual is required to keep his army-issued personal weapon (the 5.56x45mm Sig 550 rifle for enlisted personnel and/or the 9mm SIG-Sauer P220 semi-automatic pistol for officers, medical and postal personnel) at home.

When their period of service has ended, militiamen have the choice of keeping their personal weapon and other selected items of their equipment. In cases of retention, the rifle is sent to the weapons factory where the fully automatic function is removed; the rifle is then returned to the discharged owner as a semi-automatic or self-loading rifle.

With all of its citizenry armed, Germany decided not to invade Switzerland during WWII. I would imagine the swiss government would think twice before trying anything stupid too.

[neutrino78x]

Originally Posted by shooting4life

I didn't see hunting mentioned anywhere; strange you keep telling me that is what the second amendment is about.

In 2016, the second amendment is about self defense. If you keep talking this nonsense about how you're going to resist an alternate universe version of the US Government, which has become tyrannical, using your peashooter, no one will take that seriously. Because it truly is a peashooter compared to the arsenal that the US Armed Forces has. We can destroy the world three times over. We wouldn't be remotely threatened by some fool with an AR-15. Even if you had a fully automatic rifle, it is still not a challenge. Fly an armed drone overhead, launch a missile, you're gone. Easy.

I don't think an AR-15 is appropriate for civilians to be able to buy, but it's still a peashooter compared to the weaponry aboard a US Navy fast attack submarine or destroyer.

But yeah, the second amendment is saying you have the right to own a weapon for legal purposes. You don't have a right to own a weapon, for example, if you plan to storm Washington, D.C. with it. We call that insurrection. Not a legal use. Legal uses are self defense, hunting, target practice etc.

As far as this other crap, no. The US Government will never become tyrannical, and if it did, the US Armed Forces would laugh at your civilian armament.

[neutrino78x]

Originally Posted by janellen

Good post. According to snopes: "Switzerland provides each of its citizens a sig550 assault rifle and provides training in use of this weapon. Switzerland issues every adult a gun and trains them how to use it: Switzerland has lowest gun-related crime rate in the civilized world".

Well, they also don't have the ammo. The ammo is issued in time of war. So I doubt that has anything to do with their crime rate.

With all of its citizenry armed, Germany decided not to invade Switzerland during WWII.

Probably more because of the mountainous terrain and also the fact that they were already using the Swiss to hold the treasures they stole from other countries.

I would imagine the swiss government would think twice before trying anything stupid too.

Well, their military isn't especially powerful. They are under the umbrella of France and Britain. Particularly the nuclear umbrellas of said nations.

[neutrino78x]

Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer

Wow, you just insulted hundreds of thousands of women.

No, I insulted the men who use these kinds of rifles as compensation. I have military training in firearms but now that I'm a civilian, a firearm is neither required nor desired. I studied martial arts and I've used it in real life application, that's all I need. If you feel defenseless without your big black compensation tool, I suggest you learn martial arts.

[i'm not a cookie]

I want more restrictive gun laws, I'm so DAMN sick of everyone's love affair with the second amendment.