Where does all that money collected by outrageous taxes, fees, fines, and costs go in California? (San Jose: bankruptcy, calculated)

[maiamom]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Pensions are not based on your salary + benefits so I'm not sure what your point is. By the way, these are not 'traffic cops' they aren't sworn officers they are civilian employees who write tickets for non moving violations. In most cities in California that position would pay around 35k a year, but don't take my word for it, you can check transparent California for that data. I have no idea why LA pays 67k, you would need to ask them

PS are you an acquaintance of maiamom? It's so interesting, two people with such similar names and you frequently post within moments of each other on the same threads.

I don't know the other poster, I lived in California so I find these topics interesting.

[neutrino78x]

Yeah, it's just like BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit).

In the Navy we get a salary and there is NO overtime pay. I stayed up for four days once, doing "operations in involving national security" and I made the same $1800 that month as an E-4 that I had made every other month. I literally stayed up for four days. Staying up for 24 or 48 hours was typical on the boat.

I don't think 62k is necessarily too high of a salary for traffic enforcement, but that overtime pay is ridiculous. Genaro Villarreal, traffic officer in San Jose, apparently makes 50k in regular pay. Ok, that's not too much. But then it says he was paid 25k in overtime. What?? Total pay and benefits 125k.

No government servant should get overtime pay.

Randy Barlow was paid a more normal salary. 50k and only $116.00 in overtime. But they're still saying 101k in total salary and benefits.

And 2sleepy, maiamom and momomanno's posts were four hours apart.

[neutrino78x]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

Which comment leads me to believe that all the "experts" on state service, operations and finances/fiscal issues have never experienced them from the "inside" yet are not loath to pontificate about them ad nauseum as if they have first-hand experience. Interesting!

Well, you and I have both experienced the US Armed Forces from the inside, which is also government service. I didn't get any overtime pay for the copious amount of overtime that I served. Did you?

Also, does it really seem to you that going on strike is serving your country with honor?

[neutrino78x]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

They are not sworn peace officers. Here is the job description and the minimum requirements, please note that there is no requirement for POST certification which is required for any sworn peace officer job in the State of California

We all understand that. If anything, that should mean that they get less in overtime and salary than a sworn police officer who's out there risking his life every night.

Neither of them should get overtime pay. Give them a salary, and tell them to follow all legal orders of the President and the officers appointed over them.

If they think they're working too much overtime, they can leave for the private sector. Most of these jobs require only a McDonald's level of skill, so we can replace them easily.

[Ultrarunner]

It was not always like this...

Just go back to the 1960's and most police officers were working second jobs just to make ends meet until they made rank.

I grew up around the car business and back then police and fire often had a hard time buying a new car... and if they had a family forget about it.

Now, I would be hard pressed to find a public safety employee buying used.

When my Deputy Uncle died in the line of service there was very little made of it except from those he served... no funeral with other agencies being represented... no education grants to dependents, no survivor benefits... etc.

The department and his fellow officers could not have been more kind but that was it...

Today, it is not uncommon for funerals to be attended by department representatives from coast to coast... dependants are taken care of and kids have special educational benefits...

The pendulum has really swung from one extreme to the other in 50 or so years....

The legacy Police Retirement system in Oakland is based on what an officer of the same rank earns today... there are retired officers with retirements 2 to 3 times more than they ever earned on the job...

Retired officers fought the city and wanted more saying overtime is part of overall compensation and must be included.

12 of my friends joined OPD... one retired at 51 with a 180k pension and lifetime medical... he got bored and went to work for the Sheriff making 130k... there were only so many new cars you can be before it gets boring.

Anyone that can say with a straight face the benefits are over the top simply is not in tune with most of America.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by neutrino78x

We all understand that. If anything, that should mean that they get less in overtime and salary than a sworn police officer who's out there risking his life every night.

I thought most people understood that, but I was responding to a poster who claimed that they had destroyed me by somehow proving that 'parking officers' are sworn police officers.

[SportyandMisty]

Originally Posted by CaliRestoration

Of course not.

There are plenty of examples of well run public works projects where union workers performed the work on time, under budget, and at a high standard.

I mean just look at the California public education system. One of the shining examples of achievement in the U.S.

LOL!

I just spewed hot coffee out my nose.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

It was not always like this...
Just go back to the 1960's and most police officers were working second jobs just to make ends meet until they made rank.

I don't think that's accurate for most parts of California. In the 60's my brother and two of my cousins were Police Officers in the East Bay, none of them worked a second job and all of them lived quite comfortably.

I do agree that pay and benefits for public safety went completely nuts when the legislature passed SB400. I benefited from it, but I knew it was absolutely insane and unsustainable and I'm glad to see that they made changes but it will take years for the reduced retirement formulas and higher employee contributions to make any real impact

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by neutrino78x

Well, you and I have both experienced the US Armed Forces from the inside, which is also government service. I didn't get any overtime pay for the copious amount of overtime that I served. Did you?

Also, does it really seem to you that going on strike is serving your country with honor?

In response to your first question, of course not. In the military we're paid for 24 hour days and have been. My service began in 1966 and that has never changed. Second question, don't be ridiculous! Beyond that, you must not have grasped what I said about no-strike clauses way back or just chose to ignore it. Willful ignorance does not help your cause. Finally, all the pension envy in this thread, all 30+ pages of it, is also ridiculous bordering on insane. At the least it's boringly redundant and the constant, negative ruminations are unhealthy. Fixations/obsessions usually are.

[tikkasf]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

It was not always like this...

Just go back to the 1960's and most police officers were working second jobs just to make ends meet until they made rank.

I grew up around the car business and back then police and fire often had a hard time buying a new car... and if they had a family forget about it.

Now, I would be hard pressed to find a public safety employee buying used.

When my Deputy Uncle died in the line of service there was very little made of it except from those he served... no funeral with other agencies being represented... no education grants to dependents, no survivor benefits... etc.

The department and his fellow officers could not have been more kind but that was it...

Today, it is not uncommon for funerals to be attended by department representatives from coast to coast... dependants are taken care of and kids have special educational benefits...

The pendulum has really swung from one extreme to the other in 50 or so years....

The legacy Police Retirement system in Oakland is based on what an officer of the same rank earns today... there are retired officers with retirements 2 to 3 times more than they ever earned on the job...

Retired officers fought the city and wanted more saying overtime is part of overall compensation and must be included.

12 of my friends joined OPD... one retired at 51 with a 180k pension and lifetime medical... he got bored and went to work for the Sheriff making 130k... there were only so many new cars you can be before it gets boring.

Anyone that can say with a straight face the benefits are over the top simply is not in tune with most of America.

You have complained about this before. The retirement pension benefits you cite do sound over the top. But, you have selected to cite those pensioners in public safety in your community. As you likely know. public safety employees were given a better pension deal, made retroactive, by the Legislature back during the DoTCom boom. That was a mistake, even acknowledged later on, by Willie Brown who was the leader of the Assembly back then. Since then, there have been reforms to the pension system.
Also, keep in mind, generally, public safety & teachers are not in Soc Sec. You mention how things used to be years ago. I remember those days too.....where one working parent with a middle class job (almost always the father) could support a family while the other parent raised the children. Those days seemed to be long gone for most........the middle class has been under pressure for sometime and it has nothing to do with pensions. That is not say there has not been some
excesses in pension benefits and some poor management decisions in the pension systems through out the country. A friend of a friend of mine, he and his wife where doing quite well. They owned their home, father in his early 50s, wife late 40s I believe, they had 2 teenage children, fairly good middle class jobs money their retirement accounts... by another 10 yrs the home would be paid off and projected big enough retirement nest egg to retire. That was just before the economic downturn brought on by the financial crises. Then both got laid off one after another,. The father had health issues that emerged, they burned through there saving trying to keep up with the mortgage, health care & medical bills and the expenses it takes in a household with two teenagers in the Bay Area. As is commonly known, any early withdrawal a deferred tax retirement account = big tax bite . What they both seem to face in their job search was age discrimination, specially the father. Genetics isn't as kind to some as they get older. Long story short, they ended up divorced, wife finally found a job, paying substantially less and she is trying to hang on to the home. Father ended up living with relatives, finding only dead end, jobs such as delivering flats & small parcels, using his own, vehicle, for some cut rate delivery service where the delivery personal are like independent contractors. I wonder if the father now has a issue with the a DMV clerk or a dept office manager @ at UC or CSU getting a pension ??