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I don't think there's anything wrong with governments mandating leave time in theory. The thing is... in this country we have decided we don't want that, and thus it's wrong in our context. If the people who believed in it are in fact a majority, I believe they will get it together to get the law changed. But until then, it appears the majority are ok (or desiring) of the status quo.
But it seems to me like if you want this, why don't you just move to a country that does offer it? Honest question. There is diversity in working conditions/expectations/employment practices not just in our country but in the world. And there is no reason a person should need to work where they are repulsed by the working conditions. This country, just like any other, has good and bad parts to its work culture. Choose the one that fits you.
And if you haven't figured out a way to get a paid vacation, either by improving your skills to get a better job, or negotiating to get a vacation, you really don't deserve one.
You fail to grasp the essential issue in all this:
It's not about "deserve". Deserve's got nothing to do with it. Mandatory vacations are a benefit to business and the economy, as well as the individual. Vacation increases productivity and good worker health. Consider educating yourself on the subject through a bit of reading. It's the information age. At your fingertips. Look stuff up. Think it through.
Yet all those people you complain about as being bad for this country were all brought to us by the current system of limited Representitive government centralized in DC. You some how believe that man is inherently evil and self serving but once elected to a position of power over 400k to 350 million people they some how change and become a wise and benevolent ruler and cease to look out for their own self interest but now watch over the interest of others.
The military industrial complex would not exist if not for the large centralized government. The king like authority of the president over the executive branch would not exists if we had a decentralized government.
Chief Justice Marshall said that the power to tax is the power to destroy, in modern America it is not only the power to tax but also the power to regulate is the power to destroy. The executive branch already exceeds its constitutional mandate via executive order and uses th federal government to punish those with differing political opinion, spies on the press and refuses to turn over records to the people and you want that authority magnified instead of reduced.
I didn't complain about "all those people bad for this country". I observed their nature. I'm not complaining. You are.
I never called mankind "evil", either. "Self serving," outside of small intimate social structures, yes. "Evil"? Nope. Never called anyone evil. (Although I could call the Donald that and smile.)
Never said anyone became "wise and benevolent" when elected either.
I said, repeatedly, and correctly: Libertarianism is a fantasy that human nature will assemble us to act responsibly and wisely if government gets out of the way. No, it won't. And 10,000 years since we came out of the caves has seen lots of attempts and opportunities for humanity to become free and self-empowered and self regulated and self managed ... and ... here we are. We can't do it.
You fail to grasp the essential issue in all this:
It's not about "deserve". Deserve's got nothing to do with it. Mandatory vacations are a benefit to business and the economy, as well as the individual. Vacation increases productivity and good worker health. Consider educating yourself on the subject through a bit of reading. It's the information age. At your fingertips. Look stuff up. Think it through.
When I had my company I offered vacation and sick days as a perk. I wanted to because when I worked got people I didn't have sick days or vacation days. But I wanted to offer that. I wasn't required or mandated to do do by the government. If someone chooses to treat their people well they know how to do so.
When I had my company I offered vacation and sick days as a perk. I wanted to because when I worked got people I didn't have sick days or vacation days. But I wanted to offer that. I wasn't required or mandated to do do by the government. If someone chooses to treat their people well they know how to do so.
Again, you are missing a critical point: it's not just about "businesses treating their people better". It's about forcing people - the workers themselves - to take a break. The workers are as guilty in this stupidity of overworking as anyone. It benefits the individual, the business they work for, the customers / clients the businesses serve, the society we all share.
You know, like taking a break at a rest stop while driving long distances reduces the danger the drivers present on the road.
And if you haven't figured out a way to get a paid vacation, either by improving your skills to get a better job, or negotiating to get a vacation, you really don't deserve one.
Its far from easy to simply "negotiate" to get 5 weeks paid vacation which is the standard in other developed countries.
Probably less than 1% of American workers get 5 weeks paid vacation. You can be as intelligent and great negotiator as you want, employers have the upper hand. People have disabled children and are dependent on the health insurance provided so cant easily switch jobs, employees are afraid of being labeled lazy by management if employees demand much vacation time, not to mention that managment is afraid of the snowball effect of giving one worker far more vacation than others so it is rejected anyway.
78% of American workers want mandated paid vacation time. How can California lead the way?
Its far from easy to simply "negotiate" to get 5 weeks paid vacation which is the standard in other developed countries.
Probably less than 1% of American workers get 5 weeks paid vacation. You can be as intelligent and great negotiator as you want, employers have the upper hand. People have disabled children and are dependent on the health insurance provided so cant easily switch jobs, employees are afraid of being labeled lazy by management if employees demand much vacation time, not to mention that managment is afraid of the snowball effect of giving one worker far more vacation than others so it is rejected anyway.
78% of American workers want mandated paid vacation time. How can California lead the way?
Your argument is because a majority want something they should use the police state to take it from someone else. What else can this be applied to? How about a $10,000 a year raise? Or 4 hour work days but paid at 8 hours of work? How about 4 years of maternity leave with pay? Retirement with full pay at 45?
How can California lead the way?
When the people find that they can vote themselves money that will herald the end of the republic.
Benjamin Franklin
Your argument is because a majority want something they should use the police state to take it from someone else.
Yes, I believe in the greatest good for the greatest amounts of people. And mandating paid vacation has shown to be of great value and increase the quality of life of the population. Its what distinguishes third world societies from civilized societies. The donor class has it extraordinarily good in America. I dont see why you are so concerned about the donor class who laugh at working stiffs like yourself?
You already rely on this "police state" in various ways. Didnt you say that you support forcing businesses to comply to food safety regulations with the threat of shutdown from the "police state" if they dont comply? You also are a big fan of public roads instead of toll booths on every road in America right? We use the "police state" in every case where the people decide that certain efforts are best provided in a collective manner to the benefit of all.
Your libertarian agenda is a complete dead-end. It leads to plutocracy with a tiny elite at the top steamrolling over everyone else. Or do you seriously think you stand a chance if the plutocrat in your libertarian paradise decide to build a coal mining business right next to your backyard? Keep in mind, the laws are set by the plutocracy in the libertarian paradise, and the judiciary is bought and paid for.
Yes, I believe in the greatest good for the greatest amounts of people. And mandating paid vacation has shown to be of great value and increase the quality of life of the population. Its what distinguishes third world societies from civilized societies. The donor class has it extraordinarily good in America. I dont see why you are so concerned about the donor class who laugh at working stiffs like yourself?
You already rely on this "police state" in various ways. Didnt you say that you support forcing businesses to comply to food safety regulations with the threat of shutdown from the "police state" if they dont comply? You also are a big fan of public roads instead of toll booths on every road in America right? We use the "police state" in every case where the people decide that certain efforts are best provided in a collective manner to the benefit of all.
Your libertarian agenda is a complete dead-end. It leads to plutocracy with a tiny elite at the top steamrolling over everyone else. Or do you seriously think you stand a chance if the plutocrat in your libertarian paradise decide to build a coal mining business right next to your backyard? Keep in mind, the laws are set by the plutocracy in the libertarian paradise, and the judiciary is bought and paid for.
Which society ends sooner, one based on personal liberty or one based on coruscating wealth from others for the benefit of the "whole". The results of the second are evident in Russia, China and Venezuela where they have toilet paper shortages and the only way to get medicine is to trade with gold because the currency is worthless.
The libertarian paradise doesn't have a large government to set hundreds of thousands or laws and regulation so the government cannot be bought since they do not have enough authority to be worth buying. Libertarian government protects the rights of individuals from other individuals, if an action of one directly affects another then that action can be adjudicated. In your coal mining scenario, if you moved in after the coal mine was in place then you are sol, if not then they can conpinsate you for you loss. If they don't you can sue them, easy peasy. Now see how easy that is without billions of dollars worth of regulators and make work agencies.
Libertarianism isn't no laws, it is basically the government the size it was 40 years ago with some improvements to civil liberties
Which society ends sooner, one based on personal liberty or one based on coruscating wealth from others for the benefit of the "whole". The results of the second are evident in Russia, China and Venezuela where they have toilet paper shortages and the only way to get medicine is to trade with gold because the currency is worthless.
The libertarian paradise doesn't have a large government to set hundreds of thousands or laws and regulation so the government cannot be bought since they do not have enough authority to be worth buying. Libertarian government protects the rights of individuals from other individuals, if an action of one directly affects another then that action can be adjudicated. In your coal mining scenario, if you moved in after the coal mine was in place then you are sol, if not then they can conpinsate you for you loss. If they don't you can sue them, easy peasy. Now see how easy that is without billions of dollars worth of regulators and make work agencies[/url]
Its complete fantasy. In this example, you are just a lone ranger, up against an incredibly powerful corporation that has bought off both politicians and the judiciary. You can sue them if you want to in your libertarian paradise, but you will lose badly and go bankrupt. The judiciary is bought off, the laws will favor large corporations as the lawmakers are in their pockets. The little guy stands no chance when the society is run by the donor class. You will get crushed like an ant with no legs, shooting4life! You will be forced to beg on the streets to pay off your legal fees. But far more likely, you will end up in debtor's prisons like tens of millions of other Americans and work as slave labor in prison making socks for a corporation in order for America to compete with China and India. Its a so-called "Supreme liberty and freedom correctional Center" and you will have to bow down every morning to the picture of the founding fathers.
Last edited by PCALMike; 08-16-2016 at 12:27 PM..
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