Blue Shield Of California instituting furloughs due to ObamaCare costs (Jackson: bankrupt, live)

[Nerdlord]

Originally Posted by PCALMike

No doctor says to patients that they need to start exercise? OK.

What is the conservative plan by the way? Health care for the donor class and death for the 99%? Pay for what you actually need...I've read the libertarian party platform. It spells the death for millions. Insurance companies are given free reign to kick people off of plans whenever they need health care, they can reject anyone they dont want to insure. The 99% will be culled under this agenda.

Yep. It's literally one of the first things the PCPs do when going over a physical with an obese person. "Do you exercise regularly?"

To say that MDs don't try to get people to be active is just wrong


MDs can't change people's lifestyle choices. That's up to the individual.

[Nerdlord]

Originally Posted by CaliRestoration

I didn't answer his question because he attached a discussion on nationalized healthcare which I'm not going to spend 2 hours writing about.

But IMO, I would say a good conservative/libertarian plan based on those values would hold up choice, accountability, and pay for what you actually need.

According to the Institute of Medicine, based on a study they released in 2009, about 1/3 of all prescribed care is actually not needed, it's a system that incentivizes "more care" not "better care".

For instance, when a person goes into a hospital weighing 300 pounds and is 5'8, what the doctors immediately do is prescribe a multitude of drugs that seek to lower blood pressure, thin blood, lower cholesterol, etc. I've never seen a prescription that requires the patient to go to a gym for 2 hours and walk on a tread mill with a supervising personal trainer, and maybe spend time with a dietitian for 4 hours a week. I'm not saying that should be the only choice for all fat people who walk into a clinic, but why isn't it a choice? I'd say a 6 month gym membership + personal trainer would be much cheaper than 6 months worth of drugs to fix the symptoms, but not the causes (which are lack of exercise and bad eating habits).

Lots of those unnecessary procedures and tests are because MDs need to cover their ass so they don't get sued.

[JGC97]

Thank you Nerlord. I also thought the ACA plan was built on the one Gov Romney implemented in his state.

I don't know how long the ACA plan will continue. I don't think insurance companies are going to continue to take the hit (to stockholders) that's been happening. I think this is why Aetna has pulled out of it with the exception of four states (all back east).

One thing I'd like to see happen and it needs to happen. Prescription drugs. The cost has gone through the roof on even the most common i.e. synthroid. The price used to be under $10 a month but it's now over $40 per month for a 30-day supply. Yet, in Canada, you can purchase a 90-day supply for $29. One company charges $10 s/h so for under $40, you get three months instead of one. The reason for cheaper drugs is that the government put a cap on the prices there. That hasn't happened in the U.S. ....... yet. It's going to have to, though.

I know we need universal healthcare for people in this country but there are just too many flaws in the ACA. I really believe it was pushed through too quickly without making sure all the bugs were out of it.

Even though Michigan's plan has worked in the state, the news is rates will be going up. This is a good indication that the same thing must happen all across the country, in order to keep the ACA afloat.

Affordable Care Act rates may jump 17.3% in Michigan

[CaliRestoration]

Originally Posted by PCALMike

And where is Bernie Sanders, the only progressive in the primary race? 0 dollars to him from the drug cartels.

The only progressive? So now leftist democrat front runner Hillary is no longer progressive?

Does that mean you won't be tossing a vote her way in November?

[CaliRestoration]

Originally Posted by PCALMike

No doctor says to patients that they need to start exercise? OK.

Umm, yes they do. Many doctors say that to fat obese people all the time. They just can't legally prescribe it, as in make some fatty walk on the treadmill and get a personal trainer and dietitian, aka REAL preventative healthcare.

Originally Posted by PCALMike

What is the conservative plan by the way? Health care for the donor class and death for the 99%? Pay for what you actually need...I've read the libertarian party platform. It spells the death for millions. Insurance companies are given free reign to kick people off of plans whenever they need health care, they can reject anyone they dont want to insure. The 99% will be culled under this agenda.

No it doesn't. "Spell death for millions", that sounds like hyperbole out of a Hollywood movie.

The fact is "single payer leftist get whatever they want" healthcare isn't going to happen. You and the other socialist can scream and cry about it for the rest of your lives, then when you die, your kids will do the same, and guess what? We still won't have the money or resources to do socialist single payer.

So it's either compromise and make what we have more efficient in actually solving the problem, or continue to FAIL at socializing healthcare in the U.S. If ObamaCare didn't show you just how dumb socialized healthcare can be, then I'm not sure what else to tell you.

[CaliRestoration]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

lol - never occur to you that Big Pharma simply doesn't want to support a mentally deranged candidate? Like lots of corporations and donors and GOP leadership are also refusing to support the moron?

Your arguments are so consistently correlative and non-causative it is a hoot to read you.

Big Pharma also donated millions to Obama over Mccain.



Was Trump a candidate then?

Big Pharma has been in the pockets of the Democrats for decades.

[CaliRestoration]

Originally Posted by Nerdlord

I didn't even look at the units as I was just summing the numbers. My point is still 100% valid.

Perhaps big pharma is getting on the Democrat leftist train and steering clear of Trump because its quite obvious who is going to be in the white house in 2017.

They were also clearly on the Obama train, in 2008 and 2012.



Sorry to burst your fantasy, but Big Pharma has been on the democrat train for a long time.

[CaliRestoration]

Originally Posted by Nerdlord

Lots of those unnecessary procedures and tests are because MDs need to cover their ass so they don't get sued.

It seems like a lot of those unnecessary procedures and prescription are actually what get them in trouble.

Conrad Murray's jail time for killing Michael Jackson ends Monday - CNN.com

[Nerdlord]

Originally Posted by CaliRestoration

The fact is "single payer leftist get whatever they want" healthcare isn't going to happen. You and the other socialist can scream and cry about it for the rest of your lives, then when you die, your kids will do the same, and guess what? We still won't have the money or resources to do socialist single payer.

So it's either compromise and make what we have more efficient in actually solving the problem, or continue to FAIL at socializing healthcare in the U.S. If ObamaCare didn't show you just how dumb socialized healthcare can be, then I'm not sure what else to tell you.

Also, most people don't realize that in the countries with more socialized medicine the quality/accessibility of health care is significantly worse.

There's a huge backlog to get non emergency procedures done or see a specialist. MDs are regimented into only giving specific (basic) procedures for illnesses which are cheap, not necessarily cutting edge expensive procedures. There's no private or even double "rooms" in hospitals. It's all communal.


There definitely are some scenarios where socialized medicine outperforms the US model, but it's not all perfume and roses over there.

[CaliRestoration]

Originally Posted by Nerdlord

Also, most people don't realize that in the countries with more socialized medicine the quality/accessibility of health care is significantly worse.

There's a huge backlog to get non emergency procedures done or see a specialist. MDs are regimented into only giving specific (basic) procedures for illnesses which are cheap, not necessarily cutting edge expensive procedures. There's no private or even double "rooms" in hospitals. It's all communal.


There definitely are some scenarios where socialized medicine outperforms the US model, but it's not all perfume and roses over there.

I'm not going to lie. HealthCare in the U.S is one of socio-economic status. If you're poor, chances are you will receive lower quality care than someone who is wealthy.

If you're rich, you will get the best cutting edge care in the world.

I just don't think the answer to fixing it is socializing the entire health care sector.

I do believe that creating more opportunities for innovation in healthcare for the masses will eventually create better results. We saw this with the invention of CT Scans and MRIs which only 40 years ago weren't available except at the most richest, cutting edge hospitals. Now hospitals across the country do 75 million CT scans a year.

I also believe that socializing healthcare will create LESS opportunities for innovation, and stagnate progress in the industry.

We also both know there is a lot of inefficiency, waste, and opportunities for better quality care (not simply more care).

Socialized healthcare is a step in the wrong direction and would make healthcare worse in the U.S, ObamaCare failed because it is based on a failed concept. When you add the fact on top that leftist also want open borders, and in California at least, they want to provide healthcare to illegal aliens, it's a completely unsustainable concept.