Canadians invite the entire U.S. west coast and Nevada to join Canada (prices, law)

[MarciaMarshaMarcia]

I'll join if I can get socialized medicine & a winter home in Sedona.

[Tulemutt]

I gotta hit the rack. Youse guys carry on without me. It's been real. And fun. Maybe tomorrow some more.

[shooting4life]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

There's a whale of a lot written about the founding fathers and their decision to create the republic with the electoral college, and why. It comes down to a distrust in the peoples' rational character. I can trade articles with you all month on the topic and you know it. The people, in this case, did vote overwhelmingly, for HRC. And the EC overrules that to install a nutball. How rational is that system? They got it backwards in this case. That's ironic as hell.

The ec didn't overrule anyone.

The popular vote isn't valid because people didn't vote as if that is how the president is ellected. Example, trump would have campaigned in blue states to get more of the vote. Another example, trump voters in California who didn't vote because they knew the state would go to Hillary would have voted instead of staying home. I would have voted for trump instead of voting third party, another example.

arguing popular vote is your way of dealing with the fact the republicans control every facet of governance nationwide. For the better part of a decade republicans have taken control of both houses of congress, governorships, state legislators, etc.

[MtnSurfer]

Originally Posted by shooting4life

Each state is free to split delegates as they choose, maybe California should lead the way and split its electoral votes by popular vote.

Funny, but the only way it works is if other states agree to it. Your assumption is no one else wants to change the system, which isn't the case nor necessarily the will of the people. There are ways to change a broken system. Obviously, nothing will change the current situation unless those electors voted differently. But that still doesn't mean the American people cannot improve that which is archaic and broken.

Derek

[shooting4life]

Originally Posted by MtnSurfer

Funny, but the only way it works is if other states agree to it. Your assumption is no one else wants to change the system, which isn't the case nor necessarily the will of the people. There are ways to change a broken system. Obviously, nothing will change the current situation unless those electors voted differently. But that still doesn't mean the American people cannot improve that which is archaic and broken.

Derek

Like I said earlier, looking at the political landscape, the ec will not change in the foreseeable future. The system isn't broken though, it is working exactly as it is intended. The problem is the education system that hasn't conveyed that intention.

The constitution and bill of rights isn't their to protect the majority.

[MtnSurfer]

Originally Posted by shooting4life

Like I said earlier, looking at the political landscape, the ec will not change in the foreseeable future. The system isn't broken though, it is working exactly as it is intended. The problem is the education system that hasn't conveyed that intention.

The constitution and bill of rights isn't their to protect the majority.

I notice so many Republicans after the fact jumping on this bandwagon once the final results were in. Yet many including Trump himself said it was Broken beforehand. Can you be honest enough to say that if the results were the opposite and HRC won the election and Donald won the popular vote that the majority of Republicans including most of all Trump would not be screaming about the same thing? I think its a double standard to flip/flop and now find the system wonderful as opposed to during the election. But its obvious to me at this stage that we will have to agree to disagree and with that I will let you have the last word. Good night.

[shooting4life]

Originally Posted by MtnSurfer

I notice so many Republicans after the fact jumping on this bandwagon once the final results were in. Yet many including Trump himself said it was Broken beforehand. Can you be honest enough to say if the results were the opposite and HRC won the election and Donald won the popular that the majority of Republicans including most of all Trump would be not screaming about the same thing? I think its a double standard to flip/flop and now find the system wonderful as opposed to during the election. But its obvious to me at this stage that we will have to agree to disagree and with that I will let you have the last word. Good night.

I can't speak for what the majority of republicans would do in your hypothetical situation. I do however tem end reading all the posts in the elections forum of democrats extolling the virtues of the EC and how the "blue wall" garunteed Hillary would win.

If the roles were reversed I would post the same thing as I didn't vote for either candidate.

The system isn't broken, it is working exactly as intended. The broken system is the education system for failing to teach Americans how and why the federal government works the way it does.

[janellen]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Oh, I don't think either is going to happen - as the movement is now structured. It was mostly just a great opening for a wisecrack.

That said, I think that a path to separation does possibly exist using a different approach. Rather than protest and fault-finding with fingerpointing at the "other" side, I think the entire country is rapidly approaching - if not already arrived - at a point ripe for addressing diverse interests and recognition of the differing personalities of distinct regions of our nation. In other words, offering recognition and validity of the NE Atlantic, the SE Atlantic, the heartland midwest, Texas and the SW, Rocky mountain west, the "left (Pacific) coast" each having some distinct identity and issues from each other - yet all of the states having commonalities as well, could develop into a national conversation of reforming our union into more independent entities under a Commonwealth umbrella of defense and trade and free travel / social mobility.

Under such reconsideration, inviting all regions to exercise more independence from each other, not just separating California, a more "states' rights" kind of union could be re-formed utilizing the brilliance of the original Constitution to considerable degree. Each region free to act more in its own interests and the will of the people.

As it stands now, we have reached near gridlock non-functionability in Washington. And this ties up everybody's interests and weakens America around the globe. Our national partisanship has reached a level of suicidal dysfunction.

Agree. The problem isn't Trump, or Clinton, or Obama. The problem is a Leviathan omnipresent centralized government in DC. The answer, oddly enough, comes from the original intent of the founders - state-level self determination. But no, we all have the most deeply held convictions that if not for us, we'd see the return of slavery and/or mandatory child molestation. Instead we have "non profits" from California filing lawsuits against charter schools in Connecticut. This is insane.

The idea of America is that localities are laboratories, and they should be free to enjoy or suffer the consequences of their decisions (states' rights). If California or Oregon wants to have legalized weed and high-speed rail, then bully for them. It's none of Alabama's business. And if Oklahoma wants to have voter ID and cut welfare benefits, bully for them. It's none of Vermont's business. People in SF don't want to be ruled by stump-toothed hillbillies, and people in Kentucky don't want to be ruled by bathhouse pervs. Okay.

Instead, what we have now is the great God Baal, the Sacred City on the Potomac, who deigns rule 320 million diverse people. As a consequence, we now have an unending cycle of revolutions and revenge porn against whoever is in control of DC.....and it intensifies with every election. A decent third party candidate someday might offer hope for some kind of reconciliation, but we may be too far down the road for that.

Well now...I think it's time for my antidepressant...oh wait...I don't take antidepressants. Chocolate will have to do.

[shooting4life]

Originally Posted by janellen

Agree. The problem isn't Trump, or Clinton, or Obama. The problem is a Leviathan omnipresent centralized government in DC. The answer, oddly enough, comes from the original intent of the founders - state-level self determination. But no, we all have the most deeply held convictions that if not for us, we'd see the return of slavery and/or mandatory child molestation. Instead we have "non profits" from California filing lawsuits against charter schools in Connecticut. This is insane.

The idea of America is that localities are laboratories, and they should be free to enjoy or suffer the consequences of their decisions (states' rights). If California or Oregon wants to have legalized weed and high-speed rail, then bully for them. It's none of Alabama's business. And if Oklahoma wants to have voter ID and cut welfare benefits, bully for them. It's none of Vermont's business. People in SF don't want to be ruled by stump-toothed hillbillies, and people in Kentucky don't want to be ruled by bathhouse pervs. Okay.

Instead, what we have now is the great God Baal, the Sacred City on the Potomac, who deigns rule 320 million diverse people. As a consequence, we now have an unending cycle of revolutions and revenge porn against whoever is in control of DC.....and it intensifies with every election. A decent third party candidate someday might offer hope for some kind of reconciliation, but we may be too far down the road for that.

Well now...I think it's time for my antidepressant...oh wait...I don't take antidepressants. Chocolate will have to do.

I agree, the federal government is out of control. Especially with the bastardization of interstate commerce clause and the 14th amendment.

The problem is too many people think it is fine when the federal government is implamenting their desires but have a problem when the power changes hands. I have always had a problem with the amount of power the federal government has, when I voiced that opinion a few months ago democrats just told me that elections have consequences and that I should stop complaining and democrats will always be in charge.

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

There's a whale of a lot written about the founding fathers and their decision to create the republic with the electoral college, and why. It comes down to a distrust in the peoples' rational character. I can trade articles with you all month on the topic and you know it. The people, in this case, did vote overwhelmingly, for HRC. And the EC overrules that to install a nutball. How rational is that system? They got it backwards in this case. That's ironic as hell.

The EC hasn't spoken it's final word yet. They haven't actually voted. You can't say anything's backwards until they cast their votes.