Why californians didn't start a proposition to abolish state income tax? (Oakland: new home, wedding)

[shooting4life]

Originally Posted by expatCA

Those who oppose Prop 13 believe that ending it will cause a price drop. Nope. Right now the average home cost in OC is over $900,000.00. Why? Because the new homes run over $,000,000.00 and are being bought. IF the average home has a tax increase the poor owner may have to sell it and to ... someone who can afford the tax, and the price will not drop. The middle class will own fewer homes and the rich, foreign buyers and Landlords will do just tine. Their baseless hope is that it would drive prices down and ... it won't, it will just hurt owners.

It is basic supply and demand. If prop 13 was changed so everyone payed the same you would see an increase of supply of people leaving expensive and In demand areas to move to less expensive areas. This increase in supply would then lower prices.


That is how supply and demand works.

[shooting4life]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

In California everyone pays the SAME tax rate, it's just that you pay it based on what you pay for the house, not what it was worth 50 years ago.

When I first moved to Nevada, that is how property tax worked, your home would be reappraised every few years and your tax would be adjusted to the current value, or what the appraiser decided it was worth. That did not help homeowners, it just generated more revenue for the State

See my response to this in post 73.

I have no problem with the taxes being paid adjusted to the value of the item owned, car registration is like this. If someone thinks people are having to pay too much then they should lower the rate for everyone, not a select few.

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by shooting4life

It is basic supply and demand. If prop 13 was changed so everyone payed the same you would see an increase of supply of people leaving expensive and In demand areas to move to less expensive areas. This increase in supply would then lower prices.


That is how supply and demand works.

Nope, that is not how it works, look at any area with the type of taxes you want. The prices still go up, except maybe in Detroit. Wishful thinking. Remember before Prop 13 taxation was as you want it and ........ prices went up. The demand is at a level that prices will increase period. No bust is likely unless the whole economy has major problem and then.... no one will be able to buy except ... the Rich, Foreign investors and .... not the middle class.

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by shooting4life

It is basic supply and demand. If prop 13 was changed so everyone payed the same you would see an increase of supply of people leaving expensive and In demand areas to move to less expensive areas. This increase in supply would then lower prices.


That is how supply and demand works.

This is exactly the point... some think it is OK to price people out of their homes of many years...

I'm glad enough voters had the compassion to add safeguards and a little peace of mind when it comes to property taxes.

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by expatCA

Nope, that is not how it works, look at any area with the type of taxes you want. The prices still go up, except maybe in Detroit. Wishful thinking. Remember before Prop 13 taxation was as you want it and ........ prices went up. The demand is at a level that prices will increase period. No bust is likely unless the whole economy has major problem and then.... no one will be able to buy except ... the Rich, Foreign investors and .... not the middle class.

Before Prop 13 many cases of prices going down and taxes up.

The 70's were a time of turmoil for many... energy crisis, gas lines, huge loan guarantees to to major companies to keep people working...

Prices dropped and taxes increased.

[shooting4life]

Originally Posted by expatCA

Nope, that is not how it works, look at any area with the type of taxes you want. The prices still go up, except maybe in Detroit. Wishful thinking. Remember before Prop 13 taxation was as you want it and ........ prices went up. The demand is at a level that prices will increase period. No bust is likely unless the whole economy has major problem and then.... no one will be able to buy except ... the Rich, Foreign investors and .... not the middle class.

So you deny supply and demand as an economic theory then?

Prices would go down relative to the current prop 13 prices. It is like you are arguing that if you made twenty dollars, then I take 5 dollars, then you get a $10 raise, then you claim I didn't take $5 from you because you know have $25 instead of $30

[shooting4life]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

This is exactly the point... some think it is OK to price people out of their homes of many years...

I'm glad enough voters had the compassion to add safeguards and a little peace of mind when it comes to property taxes.

My increasing income is causing my taxes to go up, pricing me out of things I hold dear. Should my income tax be locked at my previous lower bracket?

Everyone wants loopholes removed until it is their loophole.

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by shooting4life

It is basic supply and demand. If prop 13 was changed so everyone payed the same you would see an increase of supply of people leaving expensive and In demand areas to move to less expensive areas. This increase in supply would then lower prices.


That is how supply and demand works.

Nope as they are having no trouble selling million dollar homes now, so there is plenty of demand for housing in OC. This is the majority of new construction SFH in OC right now.

Raising the taxes just raises the overall cost, it does not drive the prices down as long as there are people willing to pay the price.

It just punishes those who bought in the past years or hurts them financially lowering their ability to cover daily expenses. That is what the State was doing before prop 13 and housing just kept getting more expensive and when prop 13 came about it had no effect on that. With or without prop 13 prices have and will go... up. People are selling their homes now and moving to less expensive areas as they can and .... their expensive homes are selling quite quickly. A rise in property tax will only hurt the middle class and prices will not drop.

Please show me anywhere in SoCal or the Bay area where prices have ever dropped, except for a recession? The whole area is desirable and most jobs are now in the expensive areas, so many cannot move away as they would then have no job at all. How would that help them? Or do you care?

I could be wrong, but it sounds like you want this so prices will drop (they won't) so you could buy? If so go buy now in a less expensive area, like Barstow. or Vegas or Oklahoma. Why should others be hurt?

I am likely to move back next year and I will pay about $200,000.00 more than I sold my last home for in SoCal. Oh well that is the market and I will pay it. I do not want others hurt so I could benefit as I am not that selfish.

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

Before Prop 13 many cases of prices going down and taxes up.

The 70's were a time of turmoil for many... energy crisis, gas lines, huge loan guarantees to to major companies to keep people working...

Prices dropped and taxes increased.

In some areas. I was doing Landscape construction and maintenance on new home tracts and the prices were going up every quarter in SoCal. Don't know about the rest of the State but in SoCal they were going up. In one area I moved to the prices had double in 3 year (SD County). This was even with the gas price variations. More people were moving to SoCal and wanting homes. A lot of them retirees from the North East who had money and could move somewhere other than FL or stay home in the snow in the Winter. This was in SoCal and prices were going up.

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by shooting4life

So you deny supply and demand as an economic theory then?

Prices would go down relative to the current prop 13 prices. It is like you are arguing that if you made twenty dollars, then I take 5 dollars, then you get a $10 raise, then you claim I didn't take $5 from you because you know have $25 instead of $30

Try reality not theory. Right now homes are selling for more and more, with minimal price fluctuation and new homes that are being built are VERY expensive because their is a demand for them and buyers ready for them. Higher taxes might drop a million dollar home but so far no indication of it AS each new development is more expensive than the last so cost at any level, tax or value, is not an issue to the buyers. So who cares in any event? Why hurt people so some others cn buy. That at best is a wash and leaves some hurt and some happy and ... prices would keep going up.

Supply and demand , yep the demand exists right now even at very high prices and the supply is not enough to drive prices down sooo. the theory is matching reality.