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I think the answer is, most houses in California aren't $220K. In fact, the median house price in California is over double that. Most of the decent jobs in California are in Coastal California, and house prices there are even higher. $220K won't buy you a 1 bedroom condo in Coastal California unless it's in an area with terrible schools, crime, far from jobs, or all of the above.
I like California better, I think the amenities are great, but amenities don't matter if you are poor and can't afford your rent. When they've looked at who moves from California to Texas, it's not our best and brightest. The group that moves are much poorer than the average Californian and are less educated (Much higher percentage of HS dropouts or only HS graduate/GED, less bachelors and/or graduate degrees). These are people that used to be able to find decent paying jobs in airplane manufacturing and other industrial trades, but those jobs are either gone or mostly done by machines now. The main jobs open to this group in California are some govt positions if they are lucky or low paying retail.
Texas, on the other hand, still has a lot more middle class jobs for this group, particularly in the oil services industry. And housing prices in areas commutable to job centers are still in that $200-250K range. I have a relative in suburban Houston with just a HS degree, makes around $50-60K/yr doing supply chain work for an oil contractor, lives in a 3 bed/2 bath home with a 30 minute commute in a safe area with decent schools. House was around $200K. Their spouse doesn't work and stays home with the kids who aren't quite school age yet. That kind of life is next to impossible to have in California.
This^^^
I'd do the same if my economics required it. But I'd also consider Idaho or Montana.
I personally have Texas about 25th on my list of states to move to when I retire. It's not even in the top 10.
I've been to Texas numerous times for different reasons mostly work or consulting related. So has my wife who lived in Dallas/Plano area. I don't think Texas changed much. Traffic in a big city is traffic in a big city. Doesn't matter where it's at.
Property taxes are high. Please stop with the California real estate being overpriced. It's what the market will bear. Just because some cant afford it doesn't mean others can't. A 250k house in Texas has the same property tax as a 500k house in So Cal.
Yes you can buy a house fir 220k in So Cal. It's just NOT going to be in some areas. My buddy bought a 1700 sq foot house with a pool in Temecula. For 225k. Completely remodeled.
80% of the people I know who moved out of California moved back. The other 10% want to or don't split.
When I have a rental up 10% of my applicants are from Texas. Most reason is moving for a higher paying job. One of my tenants is from Texas. She moved here. Her job here pays 35% more than she was paid in Texas to do the same work.
Those cheaper prices also mean lower wages.
As far as oil jobs that's great. Anyone around for the oil crash in the Dakotas? People were losing jobs left and right. Eventually oil may make a comeback. So far it hasn't.
I personally have Texas about 25th on my list of states to move to when I retire. It's not even in the top 10.
I've been to Texas numerous times for different reasons mostly work or consulting related. So has my wife who lived in Dallas/Plano area. I don't think Texas changed much. Traffic in a big city is traffic in a big city. Doesn't matter where it's at.
Property taxes are high. Please stop with the California real estate being overpriced. It's what the market will bear. Just because some cant afford it doesn't mean others can't. A 250k house in Texas has the same property tax as a 500k house in So Cal.
Yes you can buy a house fir 220k in So Cal. It's just NOT going to be in some areas. My buddy bought a 1700 sq foot house with a pool in Temecula. For 225k. Completely remodeled.
80% of the people I know who moved out of California moved back. The other 10% want to or don't split.
When I have a rental up 10% of my applicants are from Texas. Most reason is moving for a higher paying job. One of my tenants is from Texas. She moved here. Her job here pays 35% more than she was paid in Texas to do the same work.
Those cheaper prices also mean lower wages.
As far as oil jobs that's great. Anyone around for the oil crash in the Dakotas? People were losing jobs left and right. Eventually oil may make a comeback. So far it hasn't.
Yes I hate how everyone screams Texas doesn't have state tax because it makes no sense given the inflation of their property tax. Who cares about be able to buy a house for less money when property tax is going put a deep hole in your pockets. So in reality you're not saving anything or very little as all you did was place the money in another pot but in the end it's still going out just from a different pot than before.
Also Texas is dry and a big hole there's no decent water, trails, etc. which is why a lot of them are overweight because they're forced to used the gym if they want to stay fit. There's so much outdoor activity to do in CA and you won't be in 100 degree weather which makes it impossible to want to be outdoors in Texas.
And yes the wages in Texas are pathetic, although things are cheaper the wages should still be a lot more than what they are. I know some in CA that was thinking about transferring to Texas and they told him he would have to take a pay cut. They wouldn't even match his current salary in CA stating the cost of living makes the wage he makes now unnecessary in Texas. Needless to say he's staying in CA because who in the right mind would take a pay cut to relocate, genuinely you relocate to obtain a higher salary not the other way around.
Progressive and smart people in Texas don't really like Texas and either move to CA or NY, it's only the Texans that can't do better anywhere else that love it. Or they moved early in their adult life and have enjoyed a good quality of life in CA or NY etc. and came back to Texas because it's their home. No one wants to leave CA and do so largely because they can't comfortable stay afloat which it absolutely makes no sense to struggle and live in CA because you are in fact doing yourself a disservice.
Yes I hate how everyone screams Texas doesn't have state tax because it makes no sense given the inflation of their property tax. Who cares about be able to buy a house for less money when property tax is going put a deep hole in your pockets. So in reality you're not saving anything or very little as all you did was place the money in another pot but in the end it's still going out just from a different pot than before.
Also Texas is dry and a big hole there's no decent water, trails, etc. which is why a lot of them are overweight because they're forced to used the gym if they want to stay fit. There's so much outdoor activity to do in CA and you won't be in 100 degree weather which makes it impossible to want to be outdoors in Texas.
And yes the wages in Texas are pathetic, although things are cheaper the wages should still be a lot more than what they are. I know some in CA that was thinking about transferring to Texas and they told him he would have to take a pay cut. They wouldn't even match his current salary in CA stating the cost of living makes the wage he makes now unnecessary in Texas. Needless to say he's staying in CA because who in the right mind would take a pay cut to relocate, genuinely you relocate to obtain a higher salary not the other way around.
Progressive and smart people in Texas don't really like Texas and either move to CA or NY, it's only the Texans that can't do better anywhere else that love it. Or they moved early in their adult life and have enjoyed a good quality of life in CA or NY etc. and came back to Texas because it's their home. No one wants to leave CA and do so largely because they can't comfortable stay afloat which it absolutely makes no sense to struggle and live in CA because you are in fact doing yourself a disservice.
Texas property tax is higher, but the lower cost of a home offsets the difference. Soooo both are about equal in property tax and that was the case on the homes I owned in TX and CA. However TX has no State income tax saving a great deal of money for the residents. Sales tax is about the same and other taxes and fees are less in TX than in CA, so overall TX is a lower COL State and CA a higher one.
I'd do the same if my economics required it. But I'd also consider Idaho or Montana.
Exactly, Texas can provide a better standard of living than California for those with low skills/education. California does pay better for high skilled jobs, but usually not enough to afford a similar housing situation as in Texas. That being said, California is a net importer of families with incomes > $200k/yr. For people in the middle, what matters is how important is varied topography to you, are you ok with living in the IE and commuting 60-90 minutes each way, is each kid getting their own bedroom important to you, where is your family and how important is it to be near them, and of course, how important is weather to you? These are the kind of questions that make or break it for the middle class as far as where they will be happier. For the poor/unskilled/uneducated, they don't really have much of a choice, and that is why they're so bitter when they have to leave.
Exactly, Texas can provide a better standard of living than California for those with low skills/education. California does pay better for high skilled jobs, but usually not enough to afford a similar housing situation as in Texas. That being said, California is a net importer of families with incomes > $200k/yr. For people in the middle, what matters is how important is varied topography to you, are you ok with living in the IE and commuting 60-90 minutes each way, is each kid getting their own bedroom important to you, where is your family and how important is it to be near them, and of course, how important is weather to you? These are the kind of questions that make or break it for the middle class as far as where they will be happier. For the poor/unskilled/uneducated, they don't really have much of a choice, and that is why they're so bitter when they have to leave.
Yep then they move to Texas and try to convince everyone how great Texas is when in reality if they could afford to go back to CA they would in a heartbeat and forget Texas ever existed. They're not fooling anyone with their fake Texas pride but they have to do something to keep from feeling like their life is nothing but a big disappointment.
I hate CA politics, and the high taxes we pay here for a lot of good intentions that produce bad results. But I also hate boredom, and it's much easier to be bored in Texas than in California. I've been in Texas a few times during the summer, and everything we did was indoors. And besides the west side of Austin, there's not much scenery to stimulate the mind like there is California. And Austin is a little overrated as a city, with wide streets and very limited pedestrian activity between the University and river, especially when it's hot.
It's also got a rip off climate. In the inland suburbs of San Francisco, we have almost identical average highs and lows as Dallas from December through February. But there's plenty of palm trees and even citrus here, which they don't have due to the just frequent enough cold blasts that kill those sorts of plants there. Meanwhile, heat and humidity are far worse in Dallas in the summer, while we're in the 80s with lows in the mid-50s.
There are worse states than Texas, it's great for affordable housing, middle class jobs, and limited snowfall. But I increasingly view California's ridiculous government and odd housing markets as a lifestyle tax I'm willing to pay considering the alternatives.
This thread asks the question of those who live in CA and can't wait to move to the great state of Texas. Been to Dallas and the traffic is horrid. Been to Austin and it is a big "so what" town at 50% off home prices compared to the urban areas of CA. Gas is 30 cents less per gallon and property taxes are 250% higher than CA. (My son's 204k house is in Killeen TX and he pays $5000 a year in property taxes. We pay $2100 on our $220,000 house in CA.)
Mediocre scenery and during our present visit the weather has been 70* with 70% humidity. Except for those days when it drops to the mid 20s and the wind chill takes it to 9*. Actual for last week. Son said when he moved to Killeen last August they had 105* days with 80% humidity. Austin has basically the same weather and slightly better countryside.
So why is Texas such a "desirable" place compared to CA? Besides cheaper housing and the conservative politics.
A lot of it, is just what you say: cost of living and conservatism. It is a great place to raise a family. As for traffic, no worse than So California: I have lived in both places for many years. Los Angeles just seems to keep getting worse.
Austin has a lot to offer: A good mixture of conservatism and liberalism, the state capitol, a great university and easy drive to lots of outdoor activities. Dallas offers decent jobs, decent home values and again, close outdoor living plus is the headquarters for several large companies. It is more conservative than Austin for sure.
The friendly people and culture alone in most of Texas is a draw, compared to how many see Calif.
As for the downside: Holy cow, yes the weather sucks and certainly the state isn't known or its beauty. You talk about property taxes; you are right ; high, but you don't mention your son's $200,000 house is twice as nice as yours, plus he pays no state income tax; it is a wash or maybe he has, even a better deal
It sounds like your son isn't particularly in love with Texas; it rubbed off on you. To everyone, there is a good place to live and not so good, but Texas does have a lot to offer.
From someone who is now in Dallas from OC, there is absolutely nothing "desirable" about Texas.
Food sucks,
Shopping sucks,
Weather is unbearable heat/unpredictable it can drop to freezing then be 80 degrees the next 3 days.
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Culture is nowhere to be found unless you forgo your identity and become a "Texan" and if you choose to not adhere to the Texas culture you will instantly be snubbed and treated like the outsider you obviously are.
Entertainment is blah unless you're a cowboys fan, nightlife is nonexistent.
The only quality if you really want to call it that is that you can come here and fake that you are more well off than you actually are. All you need to do is buy a luxury car and you're in. Also those with average looks would be considered beautiful here as there is a lot to be desired in the looks department for the women. The men are plain/boring and socially awkward.
Unless you're really going to save a significant amount of money, it would be a disservice to move from CA to Texas.
Why in Gods green earth do you say the food sucks? You can't just make a statement and expect everyone to take you serious without an example. I will say the same about the shopping situation? What do you not have in Texas that you have in California? NADA.. I think most people would agree about the weather; there you have given an example; Men boring and socially awkward: I think that is a matter of opinion and depends on who you are hanging out with and where?
I have to wonder, from your postings if you have ever owned a home? And what do you mean about no decent water? If you are a property owner, you should understand the value of no income tax versus higher property taxes. The quality of water, I have heard many reasons for not liking Texas but never heard anything about the water, whether you are talking drinking it swimming in it.
Last edited by nmnita; 12-26-2016 at 06:46 AM..
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