California has put up a giant “Go Away” sign to small business owners (low income, section 8)

[jm1982]

Originally Posted by TheFlats

Workers are also dealing with rising costs and while a business can raise their prices to accommodate higher wages many people are stuck in a cycle where only minimum wage jobs are available to them.

Of course a minimum wage isn't market driven, that's why it's a minimum wage. What does a "market driven" minimum wage look like? Letting business decide their wages with no controls is market driven, but then there would be no minimum wage by definition.

I would argue that that market has spoken through the political will that has been expressed recently to raise wages, the protests for a living minimum wage, and businesses voluntarily increasing wages (like Walmart some years back). Of course, there will always be businesses that will take advantage of their workers and if given the chance would be working them at $5/hr and 10 hour days because they know the person needs the job.

As mentioned in the article they could raise costs but it doesn't mean the people buying from them will pay that higher cost .
Many people are stuck for how long , forever ? They can never make more than minimum wage .
These workers can at least have the opportunity , i.e. a certificate program , college ( many grants and loans for low paid people ) a training program etc to increase their income .
For businesses in CA though there is no escaping the coming $15 wage , no exemptions .

At least min wage workers have an opportunity to escape minimum wage work , but the only way small business owners can escape is to move out of state .

[payutenyodagimas]

why are they still asking for tips? at 15% minimum? isn't it tips are only mandatory if waiters are not paid the minimum wage?

[CaliRestoration]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

yeah, California is doomed

"California’s economy continues to report steady growth. Nonfarm employment has risen
2.3 percent year over year and the state’s jobless rate has tumbled 0.6 percentage points over the
past year to 5.3 percent in November. While job growth is still outpacing the nation, the Golden
State’s economy is showing some signs of cooling."

"While employment growth appears to be losing momentum, California’s economy is still growing
nearly twice as fast as the nation. Real GDP in California grew at a 2.2 percent annual rate in Q2,
an entire percentage point above the reported national gain (Figure 2). With the recent increase,
California’s economy is now valued at $2.56 trillion. The Golden State accounts for 14 percent of
the U.S. economy and accounted for about 27 percent of the nation’s growth over the past year."

https://www08.wellsfargomedia.com/as...t-20161216.pdf

That link is fake news. It does not mention job losses or U6. BLS is the gold standard, and BLS shows that California's private sector growth has crawled to a stop.



See I'll help you out. See how that blue line and red line are almost touching? That's not a good thing. When that blue line goes under the red line (which it will since California is intent on chasing jobs out of state), it's going to get really bad. Not to mention that Calpers is in big trouble as well (which will potentially hurt your retirement).

You should learn to really vet the sources you're using to back up your fake points.

[TheFlats]

Yes, it's important to look at full employment numbers not just the "top line" employment rate. The problem is you're ignoring your own advice and drawing a conclusion of no job growth based on the share of employment not rising. This doesn't take into account many people are voluntarily leaving the workforce (i.e. Baby Boomers retiring) which cancels out the new entrants, growth-wise.

Your graph doesn't show that private sector jobs are not being created, just that they're being cancelled out by jobs no longer existing. This is happening all over the nation, not a California thing. And yes, it is an issue we as a nation need to address. Funny thing, the state's high immigration numbers have cushioned a lot of the drop in workforce participation relative to other low immigration states.

[PNW-type-gal]

Originally Posted by CaliRestoration

You should learn to really vet the sources you're using to back up your fake points.

Look at other states, which are pretty much in the same boat. It isn't a particularly pretty boat, mind you.

https://www.bls.gov/bdm/bdmstate.htm (be sure to click on the "percentage chart" for direct comparisons and watch the scale on the vertical axis, they aren't all the same)

Also, Wells Fargo is not "fake news" - sure, it is a PR release from their investment branch, but that isn't the same thing as fake news, which is demonstrably fiction.

[TheFlats]

Originally Posted by jm1982

As mentioned in the article they could raise costs but it doesn't mean the people buying from them will pay that higher cost .

At least min wage workers have an opportunity to escape minimum wage work , but the only way small business owners can escape is to move out of state .

Yes, they can close their business, move to a lower wage location (if possible, not likely for restaurants, etc.), dip into their profits to pay wages, or raise prices. The last two are the most likely ones.

I believe consumers will be able to shoulder the increased costs and the higher wage that employees receive will have a positive effect on their work productivity in addition to largely being spent on goods and services (demand for the businesses).

Will there be a group of businesses that are right on the edge and will have to let an employee(s) go because they cannot afford increased wages? Yes. The real world is tumultuous and uncaring and people hanging on the edges of something are the ones likely to get shaken off when changes occur. Creative destruction.

Did some businesses go out of business in previous decades because of minimum wage increases? Sure, but that doesn't mean our economy has fallen off a cliff because of it or that we need to go back to a $5 minimum wage to sustain these businesses.

[CaliRestoration]

Originally Posted by TheFlats

Yes, they can close their business, move to a lower wage location (if possible, not likely for restaurants, etc.), dip into their profits to pay wages, or raise prices. The last two are the most likely ones.

I believe consumers will be able to shoulder the increased costs and the higher wage that employees receive will have a positive effect on their work productivity in addition to largely being spent on goods and services (demand for the businesses).

Will there be a group of businesses that are right on the edge and will have to let an employee(s) go because they cannot afford increased wages? Yes. The real world is tumultuous and uncaring and people hanging on the edges of something are the ones likely to get shaken off when changes occur. Creative destruction.

Did some businesses go out of business in previous decades because of minimum wage increases? Sure, but that doesn't mean our economy has fallen off a cliff because of it or that we need to go back to a $5 minimum wage to sustain these businesses.

[TheFlats]

Oh, for sure. Look at all of the self check-out lines now. I read somewhere that a retail cashier was one of the most common jobs in the nation (like top 3). Technology is such a huge disrupter, always has been.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by CaliRestoration

That link is fake news. It does not mention job losses or U6
You should learn to really vet the sources you're using to back up your fake points.

Wells Fargo does not publish fake news

[CaliRestoration]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Wells Fargo does not publish fake news

You're right, their specialty is making fake accounts. In every other facet of their business, I'm sure their 100% honest.